Jeff Ream Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Care to show me the research that proves your statement ? Specificaly More involved, more returning to shows,more attending camps, and more sticking with the activity for life ?? Its not about belittling HS programs, its about keeping the drum corps experience unique and giving fans and performers an option. Geoffrey great point. We saw no research with electronics either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 There is no research to prove otherwise either. Greater % of WWs will attend camps for sure. That alone benefits financials because that level of involvement gains more commitment to the activity than simply attending an event at the age of 15. The amount of fans claiming they will leave, like in baseball/hockey/basketball disputes is always overstated. They always come back. I'm not so sure they will for that. DCI even did a survey with current marchers 2 years ago...funny they were against it too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Substitute the words "WW's ( woodwinds ) above with "Bb Trumpets", and we were told the very same things.. ie, " more $$ in the long term, more involved, more returning to shows, more camps, more sticking with the activity for life, etc and blah blah blah ". How'd that work out ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 There is no research to prove otherwise either. Greater % of WWs will attend camps for sure. That alone benefits financials because that level of involvement gains more commitment to the activity than simply attending an event at the age of 15. The amount of fans claiming they will leave, like in baseball/hockey/basketball disputes is always overstated. They always come back. You continue to press these claims of financial gain but you fail to produce any evidence that having more members actually increases income. I supposes if you repeat something long enough you can get a few to agree with you but, for the rest of us, we need a little more evidence of your contention. Heck, I'd even take a close guess based on real facts! And if your contention is that those who leave "always come back", how come that's not true in drum corps? (Not to mention that you have no evidence for this contention either.) I'm also beginning to believe your GH's avatar. Or maybe MikeD's... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowtron Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 I'm not belittling bands at all...I've taught them for 26 years. The argument that bringing in Woodwinds is the same tired song and dance that electronics used for justification. Where are the new bodies? Where are the people saying "####, that low end synth patch overpowering the corps made me a fan for life?" In fact, the argument for electronics talked about this creative frredom designers would have, and yet...very little creativity has happened with electronics. if you want to see true creativity with electronics, you need to look at WGI Percussion, not DCI. While you may say it will bring in new bodies, and it may bring some.....the cost of woodwinds will create expenses to sky rocket, and the loss of many long time fans will be devastating to the bottom line. Also, no one here is encouraging people to boo anyone. Therefore, savethe drama for your mama and stick to the facts I agree designers have not been creative with electronics in DCI. But electronics did not offer any potential to expand the # of kids involved. It only gave front ensemble students an alternative. The podcast mentioned 63% of HS band musicians are WWs...let's be conservative and assume 50%. That's 50% of HS band students that will NEVER attend a camp aside from a handful that convert to brass or guard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rifuarian Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 There is no research to prove otherwise either. Greater % of WWs will attend camps for sure. That alone benefits financials because that level of involvement gains more commitment to the activity than simply attending an event at the age of 15. The amount of fans claiming they will leave, like in baseball/hockey/basketball disputes is always overstated. They always come back. It's been explained very carefully in several excellent posts why woodwinds do not mean more money. There's no support for it anywhere in the community, beyond George's half-hearted statements. It's never, ever, ever going to happen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowtron Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 You continue to press these claims of financial gain but you fail to produce any evidence that having more members actually increases income. I supposes if you repeat something long enough you can get a few to agree with you but, for the rest of us, we need a little more evidence of your contention. Heck, I'd even take a close guess based on real facts! And if your contention is that those who leave "always come back", how come that's not true in drum corps? (Not to mention that you have no evidence for this contention either.) I'm also beginning to believe your GH's avatar. Or maybe MikeD's... More members increases lifetime DCI income. That level of participation leads to a long relationshp with the activity. Why not let corps try it? It might only be 2 or 3 and if they're not effective or successful it will go away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlvalet Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 More members increases lifetime DCI income. That level of participation leads to a long relationshp with the activity. Why not let corps try it? It might only be 2 or 3 and if they're not effective or successful it will go away. You continue to show your marketing ignorance IMHO. I pray you don't work for DCI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowtron Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 You continue to show your marketing ignorance IMHO. I pray you don't work for DCI. Yes, and excluding half your core audience from participating is great marketing awareness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 I agree designers have not been creative with electronics in DCI. But electronics did not offer any potential to expand the # of kids involved. It only gave front ensemble students an alternative. The podcast mentioned 63% of HS band musicians are WWs...let's be conservative and assume 50%. That's 50% of HS band students that will NEVER attend a camp aside from a handful that convert to brass or guard. but electronics could expand the front ensemble...so yes there is potential for more kids. Let's be real here...attending one camp doesn't automatically mean a future revenue stream. And the amount of time needed to allow that stream to grow could be deadly, because right now, despite all the ballyhoo about band kids, it's the diehards paying the most money. Oh sure we hear about busses of band kids......but they are paying discounted prices. They aren't attending multiple shows a year. They aren't buying tons of merchandise, getting the Fan network or doing things like Joining Friends. and if you want to see what changes in the last 10 years have done to drive away people, look at Friends of DCI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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