maestro! Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 The fallacy is that in movies one should not really remember the music at all but the music should only enhance the emotive aspects of words and actions of the actors as well as the cinematography on the screen. In fact, movie music is so disjunctive that the soundtrack CD/Mp3 is arranged vastly different than the music which actually appears in the movie! This is completely off the topic, but I couldn't disagree with you more on those two statements. Although it may be true and in film, during certain scenes the music is written to create an effect (in which the composer will fall under the sound design category as well...Danny Elfman is known for this with his MIB trilogy and the use of electronics he performed himself), the most popular of Film Composers out there have won awards and/or recognition for their memorable music and themes. And I'm not just talking about the Main Titles, or Ending Titles. There are many themes within movies that are memorable and played in full throughout that scene. And most importantly, they are musical!! The disjunctive sounds that make up the sound design are few and far between...unless you're a horror movie fan, and only watch that genre. In which case you'll be hearing a lot of suspense building (usually leading to silence), or random percussion hits to cause the element of surprise in the theatre. Although some of the recurring themes in a movie may be edited together by the producers of the soundtrack cd, you can actually notice in some movies that this is false. The most they'll do in editing is delete the silence in the chart...the railroad tracks if you will. I have some examples, but this is way off topic, but I'll conclude this comment having already mentioned Elfman; most DVD's I've purchased with his music as the score, will have the option to hear his commentary with JUST the score playing, and he will comment in between charts. You can hear that they are complete...not edited. I know, I know, I focused on the wrong point and took this . Oh well 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maestro! Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 You previously stated that they, and I quote, "made you sit through those old farts and little kids fracking notes". So which is it? Do you like to watch everyone, or are you forced to watch those you do not like? Make up your mind here!!! You have to have read flammaster's other comments. I think the sarcasm was supposed to be implied. Or am I the only one that saw this? Flammaster? (but then again, a joke isn't funny if you have to explain it hahaha) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumno5 Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Why do drum corps arrangers think they know better than the great composers? It's one week into the season and already, just for starters, we've heard bastardized versions of Gymnopedie, Mars & Jupiter, Nessum Dorma, In the Hall of the Mountain King, New World Symphony and even Jingle Bells. Sheesh! I don't get it. Well, actually, I'm okay with the Jingle Bells tinkering. (Sorry about the too long title.) I love the work of the great masters, both old and new. But a drum corps show is not an orchestra concert. For better or worse (depending on your point of view, I suppose), corps are under no obligation to accurately replicate the works of Satie, Holst, Puccini, Grieg, et al. And anyway, great renditions of those works in their original form are readily available both in live performances and on disk, mp3, or whatever might be your recorded media of choice; it's not like the corps are restricting your access to their source material. My advice is to relax and enjoy both the legit and field-edited versions on their own terms. Vive la difference! Peace, Fred O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geluf Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Does the OP understand what "arranging" is? I'm just curious. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 This is completely off the topic, but I couldn't disagree with you more on those two statements. Although it may be true and in film, during certain scenes the music is written to create an effect (in which the composer will fall under the sound design category as well...Danny Elfman is known for this with his MIB trilogy and the use of electronics he performed himself), the most popular of Film Composers out there have won awards and/or recognition for their memorable music and themes. And I'm not just talking about the Main Titles, or Ending Titles. There are many themes within movies that are memorable and played in full throughout that scene. And most importantly, they are musical!! The disjunctive sounds that make up the sound design are few and far between...unless you're a horror movie fan, and only watch that genre. In which case you'll be hearing a lot of suspense building (usually leading to silence), or random percussion hits to cause the element of surprise in the theatre. Although some of the recurring themes in a movie may be edited together by the producers of the soundtrack cd, you can actually notice in some movies that this is false. The most they'll do in editing is delete the silence in the chart...the railroad tracks if you will. I have some examples, but this is way off topic, but I'll conclude this comment having already mentioned Elfman; most DVD's I've purchased with his music as the score, will have the option to hear his commentary with JUST the score playing, and he will comment in between charts. You can hear that they are complete...not edited. I know, I know, I focused on the wrong point and took this . Oh well Will try not to veer too off topic here. I have actually sat down with Goldsmith, Williams, Conti, and a few others personally asking them specific questions concerning how they compose for film. In essence it is all about time-line clocking and manipulating musical thematic ideas into the framework on top of the visual and audio scripting; irrespective of musical phraseology. While they might have a specific theme in mind, the musical idea is thus dictated by the visual/script edit cut which "does" leave much of the music in the film disjunctive. This visual approach dictating the musical ideas is now an integral part of corps show design (phrases and beats and lines are now cut or expanded to accommodate the visual design) and this is partly why many of the corps music in modern show design tends to be somewhat disjunctive in phraseology. Now, back to the topic at hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flammaster Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 You have to have read flammaster's other comments. I think the sarcasm was supposed to be implied. Or am I the only one that saw this? Flammaster? (but then again, a joke isn't funny if you have to explain it hahaha) Thank you! I think it's hilarious that pissy little threads like this go on and on for 30 pages and sometimes even more! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Doherty Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 (edited) Hello Friends, No attempt here to be argumentative, and I apologize for repeating the thoughts of others. First - to squeeze a forty minute or more piece into eleven minutes requires arranging, Some are very faithful to the original, e.g. Cadets '87 Appalachian Spring, Star '90 Balthazaar's Feast. There are others. I just wanted to offer some examples. Second - when a piece contains string and reed parts they must be arranged around. Witness Phantom - Wagner and Shostakovich Third - there are arrangements of arrangements. The first Madison Malaguena was an arrangement of the Bill Holman version for Stan Kenton whiich was an arrangement of the original, that I understand was a guitar piece. I have not heard the original composer's version. Any suggestions? Fourth - Sam is composing and arranging. It is a shame that he does not appear to be getting any consideration. Kevin Edited June 25, 2012 by Kevin Doherty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 (edited) Hello Friends, No attempt here to be argumentative, and I apologize for repeating the thoughts of others. First - to squeeze a forty minute or more piece into eleven minutes requires arranging, Some are very faithful to the original, e.g. Cadets '87 Appalachian Spring, Star '90 Balthazaar's Feast. There are others. I just wanted to offer some examples. Second - when a piece contains string and reed parts they must be arranged around. Witness Phantom - Wagner and Shostakovich Third - there are arrangements of arrangements. The first Madison Malaguena was an arrangement of the Bill Holman version for Stan Kenton whiich was an arrangement of the original, that I understand was a guitar piece. I have not heard the original composer's version. Any suggestions? Fourth - Sam is composing and arranging. It is a shame that he does not appear to be getting any consideration. Kevin Edited June 25, 2012 by corpsband Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flammaster Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 of course you realize this only bothers them when ""certain"" corps do the arranging. if it's their corps then it's different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim K Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I've heard arrangements that thoroughly amaze me. I've also heard arrangements that all but leave me in horror. I also know that some of the arrangements I have loved have been panned by others, and some of the terrible arrangements have been highly praised. Bottom line--it's a matter of opinion and taste. Now as far as the intention of the composer is concerned, last year many of us were gaga over Phantom's "Elsa's Procession." It was a dignified arrangement and received high praise but Wagner never wanted his work excerpted, so if we adhere strictly to the composer's intentions, we would have to take his music out of drum corps, most concert halls, and hear the music compete at Bayreuth in Germany. Now Verdi, Wagner's contemporary, knew his music was great when organ grinders performed it. Many of the greatest composers may have composed for royalty and aristocrats, but considered it a compliment when the public at large enjoyed it. In opera, there was a push to be as close to the composer's intentions as possible and all kinds of musical flourishes were removed, and the music sounded great technically, but something was missing. Autographed scores were then discovered, and even though the composer did not change the score, there are markings that show that many composers seemed to love embellishments and approve liberties from time to time. If the composer is not living, we can't know intentions for certain. So for me, what matters is first, the dignity of the music is upheld, second it can be performed well by a corps, and it fits a show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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