Jeff Ream Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 always a slotting conspiracy It's math, man. MATH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeptic Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 You can do both, my friend. But that attitude is among many reasons why it's hard to put butts in the seats. If you are only playing to the judges, eventually they'll be the only ones there. Judges do not keep drum corps going. The crowd does. The smaller the crowd gets the less likely it is there will be a next year. And boy you betcha Empire draws a crowd. I understand. Point is that if you spend most of your time making sure the crowd is happy, you lose sight of what the judges want. If you are not in it to win it then thats great but again, dont ponder at seasons end why that corps didnt win. I'm not saying MBI isn't consistently good, heaven knows they are, but you base your opinion on what? The last few years? Your statement sounds pretty abosulte considering they hadn't broken the top 3 until what? A few years back? Let's also consider that until MBI won prelims last year, Statesmen were as close as anyone was to Reading during their streak coming within .8 at Reading's own homeshow in 2010 while putting the crowd on it's feet (READING'S CROWD), the week before DCA. Even the mighty MBI couldn't accomplish that until the next season when they ultimately won, and rightfully so. So to say that Reading and MBI distance themselves from the entire rest of the pack on a consistent basis isn't quite accurate. Not to say that it hasn't happened. It is far too early in this season to say that it will. Just saying. Because the last few years are what we have been talking about. MBI has been 2nd or 1st since 2008. Obviously I need to stay within those few years because those are the relative years I am talking about. You can look at the numbers all you want but IMO and others on here... MBI and Bucs are well ahead of the rest in terms of design and execution and so far this year, its looking the same for the Bucs, harder to tell with MBI since they are a late season corps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron H Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 I understand. Point is that if you spend most of your time making sure the crowd is happy, you lose sight of what the judges want. If you are not in it to win it then thats great but again, dont ponder at seasons end why that corps didnt win. Because the last few years are what we have been talking about. MBI has been 2nd or 1st since 2008. Obviously I need to stay within those few years because those are the relative years I am talking about. You can look at the numbers all you want but IMO and others on here... MBI and Bucs are well ahead of the rest in terms of design and execution and so far this year, its looking the same for the Bucs, harder to tell with MBI since they are a late season corps. I agree. But I'd like to get more clarification for using the term "late-season corps." I know what you mean, but it's a fair bet to say that all the corps will improve dramatically by the end of the season. Say one of them improves more than the others and maybe even re-writes parts of their show. Is that corps then a "late-season corps?" Would the Cabs be in that category if they went from where they are now to 3rd in finals? Or is the definition more in line with point spreads from beginning to end of the season? I used to marvel at the Bushwackers when they'd start the season in perhaps 3rd and end up winning with a show that was transformed from "Pretty Good" to WOW!" I definitely thought of them as a late-season corps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 (edited) I used to marvel at the Bushwackers when they'd start the season in perhaps 3rd and end up winning with a show that was transformed from "Pretty Good" to WOW!" I definitely thought of them as a late-season corps. They are certainly the best example of what can be done between the first show and championships. The thing with them is, they were rewriting out of necessity. They had to fill or close so many holes...almost every year (except 2006, where they were a real contender and won brass and guard...go figure). The thing is, if you are filling/closing holes...the one thing you aren't doing is cleaning. Edited July 4, 2012 by Kamarag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HBD Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 The thing is, if you are filling/closing holes...the one thing you aren't doing is cleaning. [/quote Sorry John, Im guessing you never saw us while we were winning our 6 championships. We were filling/closing holes, making changes AND cleaning all at the same time. It can be done with the right people teaching and marching, We proved that 6 times, One of them undefeated. Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 The thing is, if you are filling/closing holes...the one thing you aren't doing is cleaning. [/quote Sorry John, Im guessing you never saw us while we were winning our 6 championships. We were filling/closing holes, making changes AND cleaning all at the same time. It can be done with the right people teaching and marching, We proved that 6 times, One of them undefeated. Jay yep...late 80s/early 90's, what Bush gave you in June was not what you got at finals, and the results showed. 92 prelims is still one of the best performance, dca or dci, i have seen live 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Sorry John, Im guessing you never saw us while we were winning our 6 championships. We were filling/closing holes, making changes AND cleaning all at the same time. It can be done with the right people teaching and marching, We proved that 6 times, One of them undefeated. Jay Different era. Doesn't make either your or my points any less true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeptic Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 I agree. But I'd like to get more clarification for using the term "late-season corps." I know what you mean, but it's a fair bet to say that all the corps will improve dramatically by the end of the season. Say one of them improves more than the others and maybe even re-writes parts of their show. Is that corps then a "late-season corps?" Would the Cabs be in that category if they went from where they are now to 3rd in finals? Or is the definition more in line with point spreads from beginning to end of the season? Just seems they add/change so much to really sell the show between the first trip out and finals. Maybe its because nobody (east coast) really sees them in August so seeing that drastic change makes them appear to be late season? They come out in prelims and you think "where did this come from?". Especially last season. Your example with Cabs is tough to answer. I guess it depends on how rapidly they went from 5th to 3rd. If it took all season, then no. If they were 5th 3 weeks to finals and took 3rd+ (and did that for a few years) then yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 They come out in prelims and you think "where did this come from?". Especially last season. Honestly, if you had seen the Lewisburg show last season... you would have known where it was coming from. The product was there... all it needed was some tweaking and cleaning. MBI, to their credit, accomplished that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron H Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 (edited) Just seems they add/change so much to really sell the show between the first trip out and finals. Maybe its because nobody (east coast) really sees them in August so seeing that drastic change makes them appear to be late season? They come out in prelims and you think "where did this come from?". Especially last season. Your example with Cabs is tough to answer. I guess it depends on how rapidly they went from 5th to 3rd. If it took all season, then no. If they were 5th 3 weeks to finals and took 3rd+ (and did that for a few years) then yes. Fair enough. I don't know the answer either. MBI and the Buccaneers do seem to have changed the equation. And Cadets2 will probably add another level of complexity. I think that's great! To me, DCA is in a remarkable period of development. 5 years from now may reveal a DCA that is quite different from what us "dinosaurs" had imagined 10 years ago. :) Edited July 5, 2012 by Ron H 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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