BRASSO Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 (edited) I don’t know about you, but I don’t care much about who finishes ninth or eleventh at DCI World Class finals. I know, it does matter to the staffs, members and families of those corps because finishing in the top twelve in semifinals guarantees a spot in finals and being a finalist does give a sense of accomplishment. But, I suggest that most casual and non-affiliated fans’ interest in the exact placement of the corps on finals night diminishes greatly after the top few; I’ll say six. Therefore, it occurred to me that in order to have the most entertaining lineup at finals, the show could be structured to showcase not only the half dozen most technically proficient corps in terms of performance and design, but additionally, including the most entertaining corps as well. Right now, semifinals only determines the final placements of the thirteenth and lower place corps. My proposal is to have semifinals determine the final placements of the seventh and lower scoring corps. Only the top six scoring corps from semifinals would “make finals” automatically. What would determine the other six corps to perform Saturday night? The vote of the fans. Allowing the fans’ input regarding who they want to see is not without precedent. For example, major league baseball lets the fans vote for some of the All-Star selections. And, more to the point, the various talent programs on TV the last decade also let the audience vote, along with judges, as to who will be in the finals competition. Over the years, the instructors, who’ve written the scoring rules, have continually insisted that since everyone has a different opinion as to what is and is not entertaining, there’s no way to quantify audience appeal and give it a caption score. OK. My proposal won’t require any scoring rules changes. Allow fans across the country at the regional contests (and possibly other DCI sanctioned shows) to vote on who they think the most entertaining corps are. A rating or ranking system could be used. (I suppose you could allow internet voting but only if there’s a way to prevent individual fans from voting more than once.) Then, after the top 17 scoring corps have been determined at DCI semifinals with only the top six automatically moving into finals, the fans’ choices for the six most entertaining corps not already among the top six scoring corps in semifinals, would comprise the remaining six finalists. What would my proposal accomplish? Three things that I can think of. First, it would guarantee that Saturday night would have both the technically most proficient corps plus the most entertaining corps. Secondly, it might change the thinking of the instructors of some of the World Class corps as to what type of material to perform. This is what excites me the most. Think about it. As the rules are written now, scores in each caption are awarded for two things: (1) excellence of musical and marching execution by the members and (2) the musical and visual design of the instructional staffs. Currently, if I’m the director or instructor of a good, but not great, World Class corps and I want to “make the top 12” to be in finals, the way the rules are structured now I’m going to have to use the same strategy as the top corps by performing sophisticated material and trying to execute it well enough to impress the judges to get enough points to place in the top twelve. But under my proposal, with only the top six scoring corps guaranteed a place in finals, I might think, “We’re going to have a young, inexperienced corps next year and have little chance of scoring in the top six to guarantee a place in finals so we’ll try and design a show that has as much audience appeal as possible so the fans might vote us into finals more on the basis of how much we entertain them rather than how well we execute a sophisticated program to impress the judges.” Wouldn’t this be a winning situation for the fans? And DCI? Of course, trying to determine what entertains the most fans may not be obvious at first, but after a year or two of seeing what type of program material the fans have chosen as the most entertaining, it should become more clear. Therefore, if this idea is implemented, it should be tried for at least a few years. A third benefit would be that the relatively small size of a corps wouldn’t hurt its chances of being in finals. As it is now, marching only 95 members virtually eliminates a corps from any chance of scoring in the top six in World Class, but if a smaller corps had a really entertaining show, the fans might vote them into finals. Isn’t that also a winning situation for the members of the smaller corps, fans and the activity in general? Some of you might be thinking, “It wouldn’t be fair to the members of the 7th through 12th placing corps from semifinals not to march in finals after all their hard work.” Well, don’t you think the members of the 13th and lower placing corps work just as hard as the top twelve? According to current scoring, many points are awarded for show design so why penalize the members of the lower scoring corps for something they can’t control? I say, give all corps a chance to make finals if they‘re good or entertaining enough. Maybe someone could create a poll on Drum Corps Planet and we could try it here first and see what would happen. This weekend is the big Minneapolis show with all the corps so this would be a good time to start. Anyone want to help? Just remember, it wouldn’t be fair to allow people to vote more than once. I don’t know if the DCP poll could be designed to check for this. Anyway, thanks for any help and ideas. Those who " don't care about placements " probably stop after Corps 1 and 2... or maybe 3 at the top. In any given year, by Championship week, only Corps that place in the top 2 or 3 have a shot at winning it all. After Semi's, 95% of the time, the Corps that wins the Semi's wins the Title. Those that are ranked 4th to 6th virtually have no shot of jumping over the above ranked 3 or more Corps to win it all. When have we last had a Corps in the Quarters that finished out of the top 3, come back and win it all on Finals Night ? So how you choose " top 6 " here doesn't make any sense to me when half these Corps have no shot at winning any more than those below 6th place do. Furthermore, West Coast Corps in your scenario would have a decided disadvantage if the Championships are held in the midwest. Would for example Crown or Cadets like this if we employed your system of fans input in the scoring if the Championships was in Pasadena, Calif. ? Lets face it, more fans of the Calif. Corps are going to be at Championshiops if Finals are in Pasadena than if Finals is 1500 or 3500 miles away in the midwest or the East. Fans of Corps could stack the deck at Championships that are geographically close to them. In such a scenario, some Corps would be at a decided adavantage and others at a decided disadvantage, and the cheering for Corps to move up in placement would most likely have more to do with Geography than show entertainment. Edited July 10, 2012 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joelw19 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 First of all, I think most corps have made great strides in making their shows more entertaining in recent years. Of course, what is entertaining is always going to be a subjective thing. I happen to know that over60's favorite corps (and mine) happens to be a certain one that is playing music from an opera this year which I dare say the general public would think is the dullest thing on earth. Also, if a corps believes they are in, say, the 4th to 9th range do they tailor their show more toward the judge's standards and go for a top placing, or toward the audience's to make it more likely they make finals? The idea of having the top 6 basically playing by different rules than the 7-12 corps is simply not a workable idea. Corps would have to have a show designed to appeal to both the judges and the general audience which I believe most corps are striving to do rather successfully today anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 (edited) Right now, semifinals only determines the final placements of the thirteenth and lower place corps. My proposal is Allow fans across the country at the regional contests (and possibly other DCI sanctioned shows) to vote on who they think the most entertaining corps are. A rating or ranking system could be used. (I suppose you could allow internet voting but only if there’s a way to prevent individual fans from voting more than once.) Then, after the top 17 scoring corps have been determined at DCI semifinals with only the top six automatically moving into finals, the fans’ choices for the six most entertaining corps not already among the top six scoring corps in semifinals, would comprise the remaining six finalists. How do you account for Corps that have changed their show from Regionals ( or even earlier ) to Finals a month later ? In your system, theoretically it appears that a Corps that is seen by voting fans in July, but not partcularly liked, but then changes up the show, and is much more entertaining by Championships, would be having fans vote for them at Championships based upon what those fans saw and heard from them earlier in the season. If this was the case, Corps below would have a disincentive to tweak their show entertainment wise as fans that saw them earlier would not see and hear how much they improved the entertainment quotient, and would be voting on the now discarded " older " product. How do you get around this ? Most fans that attend local and Regional shows early in the season don't attend Championship week. Are you still going to allow them to vote though, when they won't be watching these Corps final product come Championships ? Edited July 10, 2012 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michsta8 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Corps keep folding, it will happen naturally. You will get a final 6 or 7 soon enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitedawn Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I'm thinking that entry into finals probably shouldn't be left to the fans for various reasons. However, a fan SMS vote for "Fan's Choice" award at each show would be KILLER. Real time voting incentivizes fans to participate AND provides an opportunity for show sponsors to get fans opted-in to receiving further marketing messages. You could even charge $0.05 per vote to discourage spamming. Come on, show sponsors! Do it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I'm thinking that entry into finals probably shouldn't be left to the fans for various reasons. However, a fan SMS vote for "Fan's Choice" award at each show would be KILLER. Real time voting incentivizes fans to participate AND provides an opportunity for show sponsors to get fans opted-in to receiving further marketing messages. You could even charge $0.05 per vote to discourage spamming. Come on, show sponsors! Do it! Maybe there could be a 'fan choice' benefit so that if the corps that winds the most fan choice awards (or figured as a percentage of the shows they compete in...or something else...just thinking off the top) is not in finals they get to do an exhibition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 (edited) Maybe there could be a 'fan choice' benefit so that if the corps that winds the most fan choice awards (or figured as a percentage of the shows they compete in...or something else...just thinking off the top) is not in finals they get to do an exhibition. I have another idea : Why not have the judges award the current shows with extra points that currently " engage the audience " ?... as the new judging sheets we were told were going to do ? This way, both fans and Corps alike would be rewarded for the competition efforts, and Corps that are entertaining the audience would not be relegated to an afterthought in doing an extra performance .." exhibition ". Edited July 10, 2012 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiritVet Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Maybe there could be a 'fan choice' benefit so that if the corps that winds the most fan choice awards (or figured as a percentage of the shows they compete in...or something else...just thinking off the top) is not in finals they get to do an exhibition. That would be really cool to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeybabay Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I kinda like the concept... It is certainly bound to get grumbling and dissent. But how many reality television shows do the same thing??? SYTYCD, American Idol, Dancing w/ the Stars..... You can criticize them all for not being a true art form; but much of what it comes down to as well is finding an audience, marketing a product and gaining exposure. Which DCI seems to be committed to the last few years. And with the "new sheets' in mind; Audience Engagement is supposedly a viable means of scoring in some contribution on both GE sheets. I think it would be an interesting twist and add yet another element of surprise. We all know that the final week comes down to a precarious amount of variables that can go a number of ways on any given evening - whether it is the audience voting, or the determined judging panel that forever changes the way it is recorded in the record books. I'd certainly feel like a more valued part of the process. Championships protocol is always in flux and nothing should be ruled out. Last year, the open enrollment at Quarters changed the way it plays out and we were all game for that adventure..... Just saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeDz Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 So when gymnastics and diving occur in the Olympics in a couple of weeks we should let the crowd vote? If I were attending the olympic diving competition, I would vote to allow Rodney Dangerfield to perform his "Triple Lindy" in the finals....... Remember "Eddie the Flying Eagle" in ski jumping ? Remember the original Jamaican bobsled team ? But the FINALS of DCI and DCA represent the brass ring of the season. In the case of DCA, it even determines voting membership. Of course, that score is determined at semifinals. With so few corps in both DCI and DCA, I don't see where you would dip below top 12 to find a more entertaining corps that didn't make finals...... JoeDz in NJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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