Blue Devils on top...really?

[Jeff Ream]

I just got back from Rockford. It was a great show, but the lowlight for me was the Blue Devils show. In my opinion, it was by far the least audience engaging show of the night. They went on first, and I liked all the shows that followed better. And the the judges put them in first by a comfortable margin? I understand they are an extremely talented group of kids, but aren't the new scoring sheets supposed to reward entertaining and engaging the audience? They sounded like they were back to bleeps and blops which the judges apparently still eat up. Play a frickin melody that will leave me humming to myself after the show.

My only other gripe is that there were no 'instant encores' this year at this TOC event. Disappointing. Guess the corps wanted to get out of there. Long drive ahead of them.

Otherwise, the show was great. Great venue. Nice summer evening. Phantom was great. Also enjoyed the Cadets much more than I thought I would.

There is more to the sheets than just "the crowd throwing babies"

And while yes, the sheets have been tweaked, because BD is as clean as they are, they are getting the nod. The key is getting other corps to be as clean or cleaner, and add crowd engagement into the equation

[ATXGUY]

When i come to a show I arrive very early and watch every single corps no matter how small or out of tune. I also applaud every single corps even if i did not like their show. I used to think drm corps was unique in that no one EVER says Boo!

You are a true class act. Drum Corps needs more fans like you.

I think I agree with and like anywhere between 95-100% of the things you post on here, and if I don't agree with them, I respect them. Also, sometimes you help me think outside of the box.

Furthermore, Id like to publicly make amends for my comment some thread back about my assumption of your Dada knowledge. That was wrong and twisted and out of line with how our attitude needs to be toward each other (fans/performers) if we want to see this activity survive.

We can always agree to disagree, but outright ugliness will only divide and conquer this great activity.

[blue_devil_fan9903]

It's just the same complaints about BD year after year. If you don't like the show, well then good for you. I happen to like it.

I also don't agree with the thought process of:

"Since I don't like this corps and their show is boring to me, they don't deserve to win."

I think it's childish. I personally did not like Cadets show last year. I did not find the music engaging. BUT.....I still completely understand why they won, I understand why they beat BD. They were better the corps.

[MotorCityMusician]

When i come to a show I arrive very early and watch every single corps no matter how small or out of tune. I also applaud every single corps even if i did not like their show. I used to think drm corps was unique in that no one EVER says Boo!

I feel bad for Kids when the atbds are empty because people want to watch the lot. When I marched at finals I'd say a quarter of the stands were empty but for BD and others it was packed. I make sure I'm in m seat for every group and never boo. If I don't like the show I still clap. Only time I ever booed was when ryan raburn couldn't bat for the tigers. :p

[CLD]

Agreed! Booing at a drum corps show is unacceptable. We're dealing with kids here! Hard-working, intelligent and talented kids, that are doing something worthwhile with their free time. That's what is really important.

Agreed I hate the booing, but will give the culprits the benefit of the doubt in that they are booing the scores/judges not the performers. Of course, I've only heard booing after scores not after a corps performs. Doesn't make it any less heinous though. Every corps deserves a standing O for the time, travel, sweat, injuries, and love of the activity that goes into entertaining us. I may not love BD's show, but ####, I respect them.

[Jeff Ream]

If DCI has reverted to it being all about clean and not about content or demand then maybe it's time for the tick system...

I enjoy seeing demand as well as performance.

I cannot speak on BD's show this year as I havent seen them live.

and the tick system was even more subjective that what is there now.

[Jeff Ream]

demand is only half the equation. performance is the other half.

If you are doing the most demanding stuff dirty then why should you get credit? If it's too demanding for the corps to do clean then the score should reflect that.

I'm all for demand, but unless you can clean it demand is just dirty hard crap, and until Crown can acheive (yes acheivement is on the sheets) that demand they will never catch a corps who is acheiving their demand.

[ordsw24]

Anyone who believes BD has this wrapped up is incorrect imo. Crown easily has the show to take it. And I have to believe they will clean it up. They have a month. It's not like DCI is 3 days from now. It's an amazing show. It reminds me a little bit of Star of Indiana at the height of their run. The Cadets are rising, too, and Phantom is always a dark horse. I like BD's show, and it's solid in every respect. I just have the same feeling about Crown's show that I did about Cadets last year....just seemed like the show to beat despite the scores.

[cowtown]

This is more of the nonsense that "oh yeah.. they just play to the sheets".

If thats true, why is nobody else "playing to the sheets"?

If it said anything about doing the things specifically that BD does in literal written english, It would be done a lot more.

EVERY Drum corps is trying to play to "The sheets". If you think crown, or Cavaliers, or Blue Coats, or anyone else didnt have the sheets on their mind or hopes of this being "The year" they win it, your mistaken.

Competition is important to many of the groups out there, and their design staffs are trying.

People said the same thing about the Cavaliers during their run of supremacy. "If another corps did their show ... "Blah blah blah.

If thats true, Why are the Cavaliers down right now? You think they took the year off? You think they didnt want to win it this year?

Sometimes, ideas dont come to life the way we thought they would. MAybe its just taking them longer. Maybe they will finish in 3rd, or 7th, or 2nd or 12th. But what will be your excuse when you (or others) were crying "The system just prefers the cavaliers! They just play to the sheets" and then last uncharacteristically low?

Maybe this Blue Devils show will finish 3rd or 4th by the end. Then will everything suddenly be right? the Judges will be smart again and the system will be wonderful? Right.

you and everyone else on DCP. "It sucks if MY team doesnt win".

Now that’s just silly

Every corps plays to the sheets to the best of their ability, it’s how they max out their shows but not every corps is capable of maxing out the boxes on the sheets so they have different priorities – Corps like Blue Devils have the most freedom because they have the fewest limitations due to the talent in the org.

And Cavies, are shamelessly playing to the sheets right now trying to squeeze every bit of GE out of the sheets and the show to save the season, that’s the minor bump they just got…let’s add a horn ripple, now a gimmick move, repeat and we’ll enter the field strutting…now make pods of 4 with a rifle in front of each…that’s guard integration – you must reward me with points ! It almost made me blush

I don’t mind if BD wins, my only concern would be all the other copy-cat corps doing the same sort of show, as often is the case. I like disciplined, precision drill – not esoteric, interruptive, individual drill coped from WGI shows.

To explain..

BD is getting Visual scores based mostly upon individual technique. Their Visual ensemble was not very good considering the corps around them. At the start, after they gathered backfield, then came forward, they did some traditional boxes that were very sloppy, those stretched to some longer lines and neither were dressed well at all… when they marched as an ensemble, you saw how weak their ensemble marching was..…if the score was based upon that stuff, it should have been lower…but it’s hard to judge a drill when you don’t have a drill so you give them effect credit but after a while the effect isn’t so much an effect because it’s been over-used and then you’re left only judging about 3 minutes of ensemble drill because that all there is, which to me, isn’t good REP

I really thought the dirt was a hangover from the regional from the night before and due to going on first but when I got home and saw the score…it didn’t match what they turned in

no biggie

[CrownBadger]

Just look at the sheets. At Minnesota, BD did take all the main captions but look at where Crown was compared to it. Crown's brass book will be hard to top, their music analysis took first, and Percussion wasn't it's strongest BUT they achieved 4th. That's not that low honestly.

When looking visuals, as EVERYONE is saying. BD was cleaner and it's true. However, despite being as "dirty" as most are saying, Crown still managed to hold second is most captions. Plus their color guard has significantly improved this year. If they keep that improvement they'll be on BD's neck. With that we have music leaning towards Crown and visuals leaning towards BD. However, each corps is down the neck of the other.

The final case comes to General Effect. Crown took Music in the caption and BD took Visuals. So as much as people say BD is clean here and Crown is dirty. It's mid July and one corps strength is the others weakness. So by looking at the Regional stats it's still a toss up regardless of scores.

As far as the TOC and regular scores, especially this year, I'll look at them but they don't mean much. With the new score sheets scores are going to be everywhere and this event proved it. No offense but SCV dropping that much in percussion? Crown's colorguard dropping almost a full point? Just a lot of "Are you serious" moments that just happened over night?

This is what I summarized yesterday. Personal opinion but to me it makes sense.

I think the judges tried to place BD a little lower than Minnesota but then on a grass field Crown didn't look as clean so they had to lower them also. It's Phantom's home show but Cadet's Percussion is saving them from Phantom passing them. Put all that together and it explains the top 4 scores.

At the end of it, they're both close and have neat shows. How many people understand everything in Crown's show? Then you can't be mad about not understanding BD. Crown let out information to help people get it. BD just said figure it out and we'll help you. Can't wait for San Antonio to see the improvements they make towards DCI Finals.