JimF-LowBari Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 (edited) I would think that some of it is already "going here", but in a more general way. I am sure that the "gas fund" is just a different way of asking for a general donation that the common fan is sympathetic to. To that point, fans seem to be more inclined to donate to a specific fund rather than a general one? IMO, the general public is more inclined to give if the money is going to a specific area than a catch all that could go anywhere, Caveat: Been around long enough to remember when the United Way started listing percentage of admin costs of groups and stuff hit the fan. Complaint was a lot fo the money people thought was going for <good works> was going to other things. But given the choice between two specific funds (gas and scholarship fer instance) would they be more willing to kick in more money or spilt the same amount between the two? My guess is depends on the individual and their $$$$ priorities. LOL - my college started sending me "Annual Fund Drive" letters every 4 months. They were annual as each had a different name. Finally told 'em "Pick 1 or send none and they got the hint". But I also give to the colleges MB fund so did add to the total amount. Edited July 19, 2012 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcibrando Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 (edited) Here are some thoughts I have... Separate the corps into Region and Classes Regions are based on corps location Classes are based on size & competitive levels or groupings DCI and DCA will work together or combine? All-Age will be for all-age/senior corps and weekend only corps – encourage more weekend only corps Standstill Class will be a standstill only group - encourage scholastic high school, college, or combined school system all-star group participation (less time commitment and expense – fun educational atmosphere and performance opportunities) Until Championships (Regional and DCI), placements are only given in each caption and overall (no published scores) along with judges comments and critique Northeast Region World Class: Boston Crusaders, Bluecoats, Cadets, Jersey Surf, Glassmen Open Class: 7th Regiment, Spartans, Blue Saints, Les Stentors, Spirit of Newark All-Age Class: Hurricanes, Bushwackers, Caballeros, Fusion Core, Windsor Regiment, Empire Statesmen, Excelsior, Sunrisers, White Sabers, Cincinnati Tradition, Buccaneers, Cadets 2 Standstill Class: TBD Central Region World Class: Blue Stars, Cavaliers, Colts, Madison Scouts, Phantom Regiment, Pioneer Open Class: Colt Cadets, Legends, Racine Scouts, All-Age Class: Govenaires, Minnesota Brass, Kilties Standstill Class: TBD Southern Region World Class: Carolina Crown, Crossmen, Spirit of Atlanta, Teal Sound Open Class: Music City, Genesis, Revolution, Forte All-Age Class: Tampa Bay Thunder, Alliance, Atlanta Corpvets, Carolina Gold, Shenandoah Sound Standstill Class: TBD West Region World Class: Academy, Blue Devils, Blue Knights, Cascades, Mandarins, Pacific Crest, Santa Clara Vanguard, Troopers Open Class: Blue Devils B, Oregon Crusaders, Vanguard Cadets, Blue Devils C, City Sound, Gold, Impulse, Thunder, Velvet Knights All-Age Class: Renegades, High Country Brass Standstill Class: TBD Note: dates are estimates/timeframes June 15-July 15th - Regions (nearby geographical locations) will begin hosting shows and will organize/plan their schedule as they see fit – all touring together (in shows they wish to participate in) July 15th (Mid-July), Regions will have their own championships July 15th-July30th Mid/End of July (about 2 weeks), those that are financially able and wish to may begin touring together heading towards the DCI championship location in Indy First week of August – DCI Championships – All Classes August-September – DCA shows First week of September – DCA Championships Way Corps / DCI Saves Money: Host show/location does NOT have to pay to host a show, but will responsible for supplying workers and staff as they do now All corps (regardless of class or placement) along with DCI, judges, and host will split the proceeds from the show (ticket sales) – percentages for each - host location/sponsor will get money from concessions and parking (corps, school, etc.) Judges will mainly come from the same region/geographical locations saving on travel expenses (these judges will be distributed and come together for full tour towards end of the season) Less travel expenses… easier travel schedules – travel within region, in circle or/towards championship location – 1 less week (end first week of August) Corps travel together – members and staff get use to each other and form camaraderie … corps help out each other if/when needed (vehicle problems, food cooking/shopping/issues, etc.) Ways Drum Corps could grow: Promote more weekend corps Promote more standstill corps (even scholastic groups) More localized/regional activity and shows Possibly rename classes and have “Open Class” mean open to any number of members and instrumentation (including woodwinds) - I know a lot of you hate this idea, but as long as they separate it out into another class and tour with the others I’d be ok – we’d see more member have the option to be a part of this activity Less Expense/Member Dues Create a small indoor corps activity to perform/compete at WGI/Winterguard shows for those not involved in the indoor activity (would mainly be scholastic or combined groups) Some of the biggest concerns I have is: Membership fees are unreal now adays Travel Expenses / Tour Schedule do not seem to favor cost savings Scores – How about just ranking until championship shows when scores are released How to create more corps that last…and I’m not talking about more Blue Phantom Vanguard Cadets corps…I’m talking smaller corps, even standstills and indoor groups (scholastic/combined groups, or other) and more localized/regional corps I’m sure there are a TON of things that I haven’t thought through, wouldn’t work, or have completely left out altogether. This is mainly just jotting down some of my thoughts while I typed this out. What are some of your ideas to keep drum corps and to help it grow? Edited July 19, 2012 by dcibrando Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 If that's the case, then, let me be the first to say to those directors if they might be reading . . .get out. As soon as possible, preferably by next season. Establish your own circuit, your own branding and your own tour. Tour nationally, add woodwinds and everything else, only do domes and have your own championships. Prove that your way is better . . .on your own, just like DCI had to in 1972. Talk is cheap. Drop the bomb if you think you can do better. oh and say goodbye to your past video and recording history 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Insightful post. I hadn't thought about taking away the judging and just making it a tour. That might work, just don't try to turn DCI into this. I've thought this myself concerning a split off. It would probably be the G7, and an 8th or 9th corps might get talked into going, but they would have to know that that the architects of the plan (Hopkins and Gibbs) would sacrifice one of their own in a HEARTBEAT to gain share and control over the product. It would end up being the top 3-4-5, and the new "little guys" would be expendable. not all of the G7 corps are 100% "gone". I'd imagine as long as a certain old man has breath in his body, one corps won't go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 You all do know that DCI already has a scholarship foundation, right? Ever contributed? With all the begging, bribing, fundraising, and brow-beating to get funds from contributors we still have corps on the edge of insolvency every year. I think statements that begin with "People would be more willing to give if..." are mostly misguided; it hasn't worked that way up until now. Further, if fans and contributors are the sources of the funds to drive the model there is virtually no use in implementing it to begin with. Without a definitive cash flow not reliant on the charitable inclinations of a fickle (and economically-challenged) support group like "fans", there is no way to plan based on the hoped-for revenue. Without the ability to plan around it it's not a systemic solution; it's then only a short-term band-aide. If one can't count on the "big" corps funding a scholarship directly (or giving DCI the OK to fund it indirectly) and if one can't count on "the fans" to fund it, what's left? Now, if the activity leadership had fostered the "brotherhood" relationship as envisioned by the founding documents we might have a thriving scholarship fund supported by the revenue of all corps. Instead, we have the "haves", the "have-nots" and an activity that is a leadership mess of the highest degree. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 (edited) Nice idea, but the top 8 corps would never go for it. They now already consider the lower corps indirect freeloaders and don't want to contribute directly to them. You think the elite corps care about the lower corps? The tour of champions is only a temporary appeasement to prevent the top 8 from leaving dci now. I was told personally by a top 8 director last year that the top 8 directors want to pull out of dci. It's still on their to-do list. It's just a matter of when. A lot of people don't get that the dci elite corps' goal from the beginning was to get rid of the lower level corps. Don Pesceone, director of dci at the time, actually said it in a interview in about the late 70's. He said that dci considered the local circuits to be their biggest competition. Sounds nuts, but he actually said it. The interview had to be in drum corps world (or maybe drum corps news), because there was no internet back then. They had to wait to wipe out the local circuits until they had another source for their feeder corps. They gradually changed to another source for members. It's called the college bands and some elite high school bands. Why do you think the announcer at all current dci shows gives the butt kissing announcement to the band directors? They choose the college and high school bands, because they wouldn't be competition for dci, IN THE SUMMER. Their plan is almost complete. The regional organizations (dc east, dc midwest, dc west, etc) are gone. The local circuits are gone. The lower level corps are almost gone (Teal Sound and Racine are the latest to go). Do you think that the gradual increase to multi million dollar budgets to compete successfully was an random occurrence or was it to get rid of their remaining competition? It's similar to what happened to the auto industry in the 1900's. The little guys just couldn't compete. Dci, when the elite corps were running the board of directors (they aren't anymore), could have put in budget limits long ago. Did they? Next step is for the top 8 to pull out of dci completely and leave the remnants to hang on until the crowds and money gravitate to the top 8 shows only. Just like what dci did to the VFW and American Legion. They have their own exclusive shows and their own championship now (meadowlands). Don't they? There will only be about 8 corps left. Are the type of kids today who once were served by small local drum corps better off? So sad, we let it happen. I want to call BS on this statement because it contains no proof, but I can't call BS because I have no proof that he didn't say it. Still, it's not my place to try to prove a negative and it is your place to prove your contention. If this is, in fact, true then root out the old DCN article and corroborate your claim. I can certainly see where a leader would want to wipe out "the competition" but, at the time, a significant number of MM moved up the corps ranks and fed the top corps with MM's. Why would any leader go to the extensive effort of wiping out his feeder program and attempting to build another over several decades instead of employing that energy to make his circuit the most attractive of all the circuits? I'm sorry, but your whole diatribe about Don P. and the other leaders of the time is completely unbelievable in all but the most strident of tin-foil hat ways. If you want me to believe it, get rid of the straw men in your argument and show me some proof. Until then, it's just BS, IMO. Edited July 19, 2012 by garfield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
27Socal Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Here are some thoughts I have... Separate the corps into Region and Classes Regions are based on corps location Classes are based on size & competitive levels or groupings DCI and DCA will work together or combine? All-Age will be for all-age/senior corps and weekend only corps – encourage more weekend only corps Standstill Class will be a standstill only group - encourage scholastic high school, college, or combined school system all-star group participation (less time commitment and expense – fun educational atmosphere and performance opportunities) Until Championships (Regional and DCI), placements are only given in each caption and overall (no published scores) along with judges comments and critique Northeast Region World Class: Boston Crusaders, Bluecoats, Cadets, Jersey Surf, Glassmen Open Class: 7th Regiment, Spartans, Blue Saints, Les Stentors, Spirit of Newark All-Age Class: Hurricanes, Bushwackers, Caballeros, Fusion Core, Windsor Regiment, Empire Statesmen, Excelsior, Sunrisers, White Sabers, Cincinnati Tradition, Buccaneers, Cadets 2 Standstill Class: TBD Central Region World Class: Blue Stars, Cavaliers, Colts, Madison Scouts, Phantom Regiment, Pioneer Open Class: Colt Cadets, Legends, Racine Scouts, All-Age Class: Govenaires, Minnesota Brass, Kilties Standstill Class: TBD Southern Region World Class: Carolina Crown, Crossmen, Spirit of Atlanta, Teal Sound Open Class: Music City, Genesis, Revolution, Forte All-Age Class: Tampa Bay Thunder, Alliance, Atlanta Corpvets, Carolina Gold, Shenandoah Sound Standstill Class: TBD West Region World Class: Academy, Blue Devils, Blue Knights, Cascades, Mandarins, Pacific Crest, Santa Clara Vanguard, Troopers Open Class: Blue Devils B, Oregon Crusaders, Vanguard Cadets, Blue Devils C, City Sound, Gold, Impulse, Thunder, Velvet Knights All-Age Class: Renegades, High Country Brass Standstill Class: TBD Note: dates are estimates/timeframes June 15-July 15th - Regions (nearby geographical locations) will begin hosting shows and will organize/plan their schedule as they see fit – all touring together (in shows they wish to participate in) July 15th (Mid-July), Regions will have their own championships July 15th-July30th Mid/End of July (about 2 weeks), those that are financially able and wish to may begin touring together heading towards the DCI championship location in Indy First week of August – DCI Championships – All Classes August-September – DCA shows First week of September – DCA Championships Way Corps / DCI Saves Money: Host show/location does NOT have to pay to host a show, but will responsible for supplying workers and staff as they do now All corps (regardless of class or placement) along with DCI, judges, and host will split the proceeds from the show (ticket sales) – percentages for each - host location/sponsor will get money from concessions and parking (corps, school, etc.) Judges will mainly come from the same region/geographical locations saving on travel expenses (these judges will be distributed and come together for full tour towards end of the season) Less travel expenses… easier travel schedules – travel within region, in circle or/towards championship location – 1 less week (end first week of August) Corps travel together – members and staff get use to each other and form camaraderie … corps help out each other if/when needed (vehicle problems, food cooking/shopping/issues, etc.) Ways Drum Corps could grow: Promote more weekend corps Promote more standstill corps (even scholastic groups) More localized/regional activity and shows Possibly rename classes and have “Open Class” mean open to any number of members and instrumentation (including woodwinds) - I know a lot of you hate this idea, but as long as they separate it out into another class and tour with the others I’d be ok – we’d see more member have the option to be a part of this activity Less Expense/Member Dues Create a small indoor corps activity to perform/compete at WGI/Winterguard shows for those not involved in the indoor activity (would mainly be scholastic or combined groups) Some of the biggest concerns I have is: Membership fees are unreal now adays Travel Expenses / Tour Schedule do not seem to favor cost savings Scores – How about just ranking until championship shows when scores are released How to create more corps that last…and I’m not talking about more Blue Phantom Vanguard Cadets corps…I’m talking smaller corps, even standstills and indoor groups (scholastic/combined groups, or other) and more localized/regional corps I’m sure there are a TON of things that I haven’t thought through, wouldn’t work, or have completely left out altogether. This is mainly just jotting down some of my thoughts while I typed this out. What are some of your ideas to keep drum corps and to help it grow? How old are you? Do you realize that what you have described is almost exactly what the drum corps activity was about 30 years ago? The elite corps purposely have destroyed that model. For the explanation as to why, see my post in the first page of this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcibrando Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 How old are you? Do you realize that what you have described is almost exactly what the drum corps activity was about 30 years ago? The elite corps purposely have destroyed that model. For the explanation as to why, see my post in the first page of this thread. old enough to know that's how a lot of it use to be - and if the elite corps destroyed it because of wanting more performance money, then they need to find better way to make money... like more camps and clinics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 How old are you? Do you realize that what you have described is almost exactly what the drum corps activity was about 30 years ago? The elite corps purposely have destroyed that model. For the explanation as to why, see my post in the first page of this thread. Yeah sure... economy and changes to society had nothing to do it. Wanna explain how DCI whacked roughly the same percentage of Senior corps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 The problem with moving to a regional model is that someone is going to have to find a whole lot of show sponsors, and then find a way for them to run those regional shows in a profitable manner. Until that happens, any talk of turning back the clock is a fool's errand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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