BD 2012 Reinventing Drum Corps?

[MikeN]

They are judged on their technical merits in areas such as playing, spinning and marching. Hopefully the shows that are played the best, have the best guard work and marched the best will ultimately be the winners.

I'm not disputing your message - I agree. We need more positive discussion, even in contexts such as these. But I'd like to add that judging sheets also include repertoire, design composition, "conceptual aural vision" and general effect - it's *not* simply who performs what they do the best. Unfortunately, it's still judging art, which makes it generally subjective.

Mike

[charlie1223]

I have been watching this discussion and others like it for quite some time now. Honestly, I feel that some of the people on this forum really need a reality check of their own. It's disgusting the way some of them speak about corps and performers, all of whom are out there busting their butts in the blazing heat to perfect their respective shows. It may be your right to dislike a show...but you are simply not a fan if you can't recognize the hard work of young performers then come here to complain about them and the shows they perform.

Drum Corps shows, just like high school marching band shows are not judged by the audiences. They are judged on their technical merits in areas such as playing, spinning and marching. Hopefully the shows that are played the best, have the best guard work and marched the best will ultimately be the winners. The corps who wish to win will continue to design shows for the judging community. If DCI allowed "audience participation" style judging the activity would surely fail. Please have a look at the careers of the artificially created American Idol performers vs. those who got to the charts the old fashioned way. Generally speaking aside from their time on the show and the time on the Idol tour...they don't enjoy the same kind of real success as other artists. Do you really want the average audience member "judging" shows? Think about in real depth for a little while. We are lucky that DCI offers marching shows from so many different styles and viewpoints. I'm the parent of a current marching member (and proud!)and even in the heat of this summers competition I can completely appreciate Crown's hornline, SCV's percussion, Phantom Regiments guard, BD's visual/marching excellence. In fact at the San Antonio regional I found things I enjoyed during EVERY SINGLE SHOW. I clapped for every show, because I appreciate all of the work that goes into each and every show.

Drum Corps is "re-invented" every summer. I'm glad it continues to push boundaries so we all get to see new and different approaches. Maybe it's time that some of you quit with all the negativity and get back out to more shows to support this activity. Or not. I guess it's up to you. You are probably not getting enough "entertainment" in your life if you spend all of your time in this forum complaining.

You are over reacting a little to the discussion...

Who is complaining? I see you complaining about complainers. I know the "every kid works hard angle". This is about BD show design and whether it reinevents drum corps. And I don't see how any comment about show design deminishes the "hard work". Shouldn't u be glad that corps can as freely push boundaries as easily as we can discuss what those boundaries are how they pushed?

Edited July 24, 2012 by charlie1223

[skywhopper]

It's disgusting the way some of them speak about corps and performers, all of whom are out there busting their butts in the blazing heat to perfect their respective shows.

I haven't seen one speck of criticism directed towards the performers.

Do you really want the average audience member "judging" shows? Think about in real depth for a little while.

Who's advocating this??

In fact at the San Antonio regional I found things I enjoyed during EVERY SINGLE SHOW. I clapped for every show, because I appreciate all of the work that goes into each and every show.

I think few, if any, folks on DCP can't find something to like in every show or would refrain from applauding any show, or don't appreciate the work involved. I think you are reading too much into the negative statements, which, again, I've never seen directed at the corps members.

Maybe it's time that some of you quit with all the negativity and get back out to more shows to support this activity. Or not. I guess it's up to you. You are probably not getting enough "entertainment" in your life if you spend all of your time in this forum complaining.

Look who's talking!

[FlamMan]

Drum Corps has been "reinvented" a couple of times during the last 10 years, with amplification, narration, synths, etc...etc...

Given the reduction in corps & shows, the only logical conclusion is that all of this reinvention has had a negative impact on the drum corps activity. DCI & the corps messed with a good thing & now look what they have done. How many drum corps are left in the US...50 maybe?

If what BD is doing this year starts a trend, God help us. I know that I wont be attending shows anymore & I know a lot of people who feel the same way. At shows where BD performs, the reaction on peoples faces during & at the end of their show says it all...nothing whatsoever. Nada. Zip. Next. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ............

There has got to be an "Entertainment" section added to the judging sheets...& the fans should be able to vote via cell phone for their favorite. Entertainment should mean something, & today it clearly doesn't.

Edited July 24, 2012 by FlamMan

[Jeff Ream]

Drum Corps has been "reinvented" a couple of times during the last 10 years, with amplification, narration, synths, etc...etc...

Given the reduction in corps & shows, the only logical conclusion is that all of this reinvention has had a negative impact on the drum corps activity. DCI & the corps messed with a good thing & now look what they have done. How many drum corps are left in the US...50 maybe?

If what BD is doing this year starts a trend, God help us. I know that I wont be attending shows anymore & I know a lot of people who feel the same way. At shows where BD performs, the reaction on peoples faces during & at the end of their show says it all...nothing whatsoever. Nada. Zip. Next. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ............

There has got to be an "Entertainment" section added to the judging sheets...& the fans should be able to vote via cell phone for their favorite. Entertainment should mean something, & today it clearly doesn't.

define entertainment.

what entertains you may not entertain me

[JerseyDCyanks]

I for one feel that the great thing about drum corps is the diversity of each and every ensemble. I love the fact that if you have been around this activity enough you could close your eyes and know what corps is out on the field because of the identity each corps has created. I respect what the BD interpretation of what drum corps is but that doesn't mean I have to like their show but I hopefully have a lot of different options when I go to a drum corps show. My only fear is that everyone will try to do shows like BD just for the sake of winning. And as any other selfish human being I hope Crown wins because a selfish human being I rather see people copy that style.

[fan guy]

Bold Statement I totally agree with. I don't think this is really going to influence other corps to go in this direction .. GOD I HOPE NOT! It's fine that BD wants to be that corps ... but kill me now if EVERY corps wants to be like BD.

The first part of your snipped quote ... the simultaneous focal points, dissolution and reformation of clusters or instantaneous RE-deformation ... these aren't new elements. BD started doing this in 1991 .. and I think that's part of the reason it's part of the design this year. The show is very much an omage to the source shows the music comes from.

If anything, BD took the simultaneous focal point strategy from what Cadets were doing in the mid 2000's. Maybe it wasn't just the Cadets. I remember complaining heavily about it at the time and it's still with us to this day. Crown, Cadets, BD ... heck even Phantom is doing it to a certain extent. To me, it often covers up bad staging. The hard part to choke down is when the multiple focal points are nonstop. It's just too much to take in even on multiple viewings .. and after seeing it 100 times, you start to question the reasoning for it. It's not showing brilliance in the design .. it's only taxing the consumer of the information. I still contend that there should be ebb and flow to visual design just as much as there should be in the musical design. Sadly, we continue to venture further and further away from what Surf is doing this year on a grand scale from the majority of corps. Surf and about 7 other corps are going back to a more conventional approach, yet aren't receiving credit for it.

I'm not trying to say that Scouts should be first this year ... or Surf or Crossmen. I just enjoy it more. Personal preference? Maybe. But I'm of the line of thinking that most stadium goers agree with me.

As for BD ... they are who they are. They do what they do. They do it incredibly well. Slowly, little by little, I'm coming to enjoy the show more with each viewing. The hard part for me is looking back to all of the 80's and early 90's and wondering ...... Where did my Blue Devils go? Well, they're still in there ... it's just a different time. I see the 91 and 92 show all over this 2012 production .. it's just taken to the extreme.

I'll chime in using these interesting observations as an entry point into explaining why the drum corps Blue Devils is doing now is new and never done before. Simultaneous focal points mean two or more different places on the field at once that catch or attract your eye. The problem is, you can't focus on them all at once so you have to watch a few times. The argument above is that you could watch Blue Devils 2012 100 times and still find new things that you didn't notice before. I agree. I think other's have utilized multiple focal points. But the focal points in BD's show are so numerous, instantaneous, seemingly spontaneous and improvisational (but certainly not really) detailed, small, fragile, and elegant that they are hard to miss, but so intensely satisfying and surprising that the show becomes a bouncing around of the eye to micro moments of intricate and ornate events. Take for example the hoops in the ballad. At one point a hoop is tossed to roll across the floor while a trumpet player dances around it mid-path to his dot in a way that was so smooth and instantaneous that I never caught it on my previous I-don't-even-want-to-admit-how-many-viewings. There are similar moments in, say, Cadets 2005, but the moments in BD's show are so small and delicate and so numerous that it's vastly more intricate than Cadets 2005. So with that said, BD 2012 is like a poem that results in any number of possible interpretations no matter how many reads you give it. Each time there is new meaning to be found and the reason why drum corps has been reinvented by this show is because this possibility for finding something new, and the possibility for so many multiple interpretations, so many nooks and crannies to get lost in has not been done to this depth before.

My main reason is visual layering. The big box in the second movement. How many of you notices that is slowly contracts for what is by my count, the longest sustained visual phrase or development on the field this year. It's illusory how the box contracts slowly while elements of it split off to create a second overlapping texture. Crown's visual phrases are not long. Those pinwheels in the opener, they're six count phrases, look closely and you will find that the step-size is not that big. Contrast this with the Cadets when the make one long reshape that travels backfield in a single, sustained visual phrase. The difference between Cadets and Blue Devils is that the Cadets sustain one visual phrase and development as a single, readable form while BD does the same thing while developing another visual "layer" over it. Look at the final visual phrase in the closer. There are 3 different velocities occurring and 2 different directions. Fast, medium, and slow moving to either towards side A or side B. When different discrete pieces of the shape match velocity and direction they create a layer. With different "pieces" of the shape matching up with other different pieces at different times the layers change and morph, weave into one another, pop out and overlap. I've never seen this before? I've seen hints of this evolving over the past few years as we all have but nothing this substantive.

Yes, BD is employing multiple focal points, but somehow they're doing it not only at the same time, but in the same place. It is this "overlap" that I think is new to drum corps. Please cite counter evidence showing that this phenomenon has existed before. I would like to know about it.

Also, a word on other corps following BD. You don't have to do Dada to use the layering technique I try to classify above. It could theoretically exist in Crown's show this year, for example, and not compromise the coherency of their thematic design. I think a great fallacy for some of the BD critics is that they are not distinguishing the nature of the show design itself - the Dada content - and the formal innovations - the visual layering and spontaneous instances.

[fan guy]

Where I really have a problem with the top corps .. not just BD .. is that they forget they are the example to the entire marching arts community. They influence every band and band director in this country (that's paying attention). Every designer, drill writer, color guard instructor, visual tech, brass arranger ... and their students.

Of course those individuals and their programs are going to try and emulate what wins ... it's been proven year after year. Go to any BOA even, MCBA in Michigan or any other circuit around the country that uses DCI judges and/or an offshoot of the DCI sheets.

High school bands have to entertain their football crowd meatheads .. which is often a chore because the kids that are in competitive bands don't care about the friday night lights. They are just prepping for Saturday.

So the big question is ... is BD so much in their own little world that they forget or don't care what example they are setting? Maybe I'm asking the wrong question. I'm not sure how to post this without sounding like a hater or whatever. In truth, I dig what BD is doing ... but the 99.7% of the rest of America that doesn't follow DCI isn't going to get it .. and they're going to be served up heap loads of it every Friday night in the fall. Yes, I truly believe this contributes to the decline in music education programs in this country .. why the arts continue to be slashed.

Our leaders in the industry are so busy making themselves proud that they forget their responsibility as a role model. I can feel the -1's coming ... ugh

I'm pretty sure that BD's show this year is not the reason why public school arts programs are cut.

[Rifuarian]

Funny thing about DCP and drum corps in general: The kids get criticized all the time. It's kind of the MO of drum corps. Performance issues that fall mainly on the shoulders of the marchers get harped on all the time and no one bats an eye.

It's only when the decisions made by the adults - regarding design, etc. - are discussed that people truly get upset and start whining about how stupid the fans are who don't "get" it, how mean those cranky dinosaurs are on DCP, how such-and-such judge "has it in" for their corps, etc.

I always thought this was a funny little quirk of drum corps. Doesn't have anything to do with this thread, but neither does your whinging rant.

As for BD: It's great stuff but it ain't innovative.

Edited July 24, 2012 by Rifuarian

[Cron]

There has got to be an "Entertainment" section added to the judging sheets...& the fans should be able to vote via cell phone for their favorite. Entertainment should mean something, & today it clearly doesn't.

OK, fair enough, but this is about as subjective as it gets. Granted, we've already discussed in this thread how judging art is already a pretty subjective endeavor, with drum corps judging sheets making the best attempt possible at making it AS objective as possible. How would you propose entertainment be judged? The fans voting thing isn't fair, home show corps would always win, not fair at all. Put it to the judges? What would the criteria be?

I'll use television as an example. I find science fiction to be very entertaining, I have friends that can't stand it. Does that mean it isn't entertaining? Of course it does! At least for my friends that don't care for it. Entertainment is a matter of personal opinion. If DCI were to be judged by personal opinion, we may as well call it American Idol, make a very narrow range of material the requirement, and whoever gets the most votes will win.

Entertainment cannot be "judged", it is simply not possible. Judging GE is hard enough, adding entertainment to the mix would be ludicrous.