BRASSO Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 (edited) wait till I talk to that xxx....lol..i my call him right now..lol....im not sure I believe the disconnect but thats cool Jersey Surf finished near the bottom ( 17th ) in Allentown in the caption " Music General Effect ". I would say this consitutes a " disconnect " when the audience in Allentown ( and at other shows ) believed that there was a wonderful Jersey Surf music general effect on THEM.... even if the Music GE judge got a decidedly negative general effect from Kerchner's musical compositions compared to 16 other DCI Corps music this weekend. Edited August 5, 2012 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 (edited) Jersey Surf finished near the bottom ( 17th ) in Allentown in the caption " Music General Effect ". I would say this consitutes a " disconnect " when the audience in Allentown ( and at other shows ) believed that there was a wonderful Jersey Surf music general effect on THEM.... even if the Music GE judge got a decidedly negative general effect from Kerchner's musical compositions. im not saying they deverved 17th I wont comment at all on that BUT audience isnt judging by any criteria so its not the same at all.....audience reaction could mean a million things and not have a thing to do with performance sometimes....its support and thats 2 different things..Ive worked with larry.....and Dennis on several occasions and it wouldnt be the 1st time its happened..but they will still do as they want, no matter who likes or dislikes what they do..judge or whoever...and thats cool Edited August 5, 2012 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 (edited) im not saying they deverved 17th I wont comment at all on that BUT audience isnt judging by any criteria so its not the same at all.....audience reaction could mean a million things and not have a thing to do with performance sometimes....its support and thats 2 different things..Ive worked with larry.....and Dennis on several occasions and it wouldnt be the 1st time its happened..but they will still do as they want, no matter who likes or dislikes what they do..judge or whoever...and thats cool The " Brass " caption is primarily a " performance " caption. Its supposed to be primarily about technical playing abilities. Hence, it is understandable to see Jersey Surf perhaps in the 17th or lower placement range in this particular caption. I " get " that. However, the " Music General Effect " caption, while technical profiency is to be considered by this caption's judge, is supposed to look at the " effect " this music has on the theme as announced, on show integration, on connectedness, on audience " engagement " and so forth. It is NOT to be primarily performance based, nor technical in nature. It is suppossed to give subjective points for the" effect" of the music itself. The words " GENERAL EFFECT " seems to be more clearer than the confusion it has created within the DCI audience base. The audience is pretty much in " GENERAL EFFECT' agreement. There is not much confusion, nor disagreement on a large segment of the audiences from around the Country where JS has appeared. The young like Surf and their music. The old like Surf and their music. The Music Ed Majors enjoy the Corps comedic relief musical show. The wealthy like the music. The poor like the show. Educated and uneducated alike, like the musical show. Southerners, midwesterers, easterners, like the music and show. An estimated 200,000 show attendees that have seen Jeresy Surf perform this year like their brand of music and show, and PARTICULARLY, the music's general effect on THEM. But 6 DCI judges that judge " Music General Effect " have a decidely different and negative vibe effect from listening to Jersey Surf's music this year. So it is what it is. But make no mistake here: there is a HUGE disconnect between the Jersey Surf music's general effect on approx. 200,000 people with that of 6 other people's evaluation of the music's general effect on THEM. Edited August 5, 2012 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 The " Brass " caption is primarily a " performance " caption. Its supposed to be primarily about technical playing abilities. Hence, it is understandable to see Jersey Surf perhaps in the 17th-20 placement range in this particular capttion. I " get " that. However, the " Music General Effect " caption, while technical profiency is to be considered by this caption's judge, is supposed to look at the " effect " this music has on the theme as announced, on show integration, on connectedness, on audience " engagement " and so forth. It is NOT to be primarily performance based, nor technical in nature. It is suppossed to give subjective points for the" effect" of the music itself. The words " GENERAL EFFECT " seems to be more clearer than the confusion it has created within the DCI audience base. The audience is pretty much in " GENERAL EFFECT' agreement. There is not much confusion, nor disagreement on a large segment of the audiences from around the Country where JS has appeared. The young like Surf and their music. The old like Surf and tgheir music. The Music Ed Majors enjoy the Corps comedic relief show. The wealthy like the show. The poor like the show. Educated and uneducated alike, like the musical show. Southerners, midwesterers, easterners, like the music and show. An estimated 200,000 show attendees that have seen Jeresy Surf perform this year like their brand of music and show, and PARTICULARLY , the music's general effect on THEM. But 6 DCI judges that judge " Music General Effect " have a decidely different and negative effect from listening to Jersey Surf's music this year. So it is what it is. But make no mistake here: there is a huge disconnect between Jersey Surf's musical general effect on approx. 200,000 people with that of 6 other people's evaluation of the music's general effect on THEM. it can become very subjective as far as was effect achieved based on some of the things you say........AGAIN Im not saying one way or another as far as surf...BUT you can plop in any corps and whoever you would be saying this about I would think you are assuming quite a bit...you and many can love them but to say everyone loves any 1 corps isnt very reaslistic......they have alot of fans this year and thats a great thing especially because its on pure enjoyment of many regardless of competition BUT you made some pretty bold statements there as many would share and im sure many wouldnt..........so all I say is what is theirs is theirs and thats cool. BUT Iwould say the same of Cadets PR Devils or whoever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 it can become very subjective as far as was effect achieved based on some of the things you say...... BUT Iwould say the same of Devils or whoever Sure its all " subjective ", but the 17th placing Jersey Surf is enjoyed way more by audiences this year than the undefeated Blue Devils. I don't think anyone would try and make the case otherwise. I mean this is pretty much established whether the show is in the South, East, or Midwest. ( Jersey Surf did not travel to the West, so who knows whether more of the audiences at shows out there would tell us that they enjoyed the 2012 Blue Devils more than the 2012 Jersey Surf ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Sure its all " subjective ", but the 17th placing Jersey Surf is enjoyed way more by audiences this year than the undefeated Blue Devils. I don't think anyone would try and make the case otherwise. I mean this is pretty much established whether the show is in the South, East, or Midwest. ( Jersey Surf did not travel to the West, so who knows whether more of the audiences at shows out there would tell us that they enjoyed the 2012 Blue Devils more than the 2012 Jersey Surf ) im gonna PM u... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storkysr Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 (edited) Seems like a common sentiment that "audience engagement" should carry more weight and I agree. The difficulties in analyzing this with regard to local allegiances, history, mystique, etc have also been noted. Because the fans are the life blood of the activity I believe that more should be done to perfect this adjudication philosophy with respect to objectivity - a tall order. Both Jersey and Madison would benefit from this approach. Remember there would be NO DC if not for the fans. BTW- Kudos to BRASSO -like your thinking but ran out of "positives" Edited August 5, 2012 by Storkysr 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasgre2000 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 It's not a gimmick if its a show about gimmicks lol Plus, you shouldnt get mad at people for trying new things. The goal for every corps is to please the audience and ultimately help with recruitment. Just because its not appealing to you or your age group doesn't mean it's not appealing to the 12 year old sitting next to you at a show. And in all honesty, i'd much rather appeal to the younger crowd. I don't know how old you are, but chances are your days are done in drum corps. You really don't have much to contribute to the activity anymore. But the younger kids do.Not all of them get off to really loud chords and technicality. To each their own I'm not mad about anything. I just don't think doing gimmicks poorly should increase your score. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasgre2000 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Seems like a common sentiment that "audience engagement" should carry more weight and I agree. The difficulties in analyzing this with regard to local allegiances, history, mystique, etc have also been noted. Because the fans are the life blood of the activity I believe that more should be done to perfect this adjudication philosophy with respect to objectivity - a tall order. Both Jersey and Madison would benefit from this approach. Remember there would be NO DC if not for the fans. BTW- Kudos to BRASSO -like your thinking but ran out of "positives" I think you are confusing engagement for entertainment. They are NOT the same thing. If you want general effect to be based on audience entertainment, I think you can make an argument for that. But the current sheets are supposed to reward engagement, not entertainment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 (respectful snip) An estimated 200,000 show attendees that have seen Jeresy Surf perform this year like their brand of music and show, and PARTICULARLY, the music's general effect on THEM. But 6 DCI judges that judge " Music General Effect " have a decidely different and negative vibe effect from listening to Jersey Surf's music this year. So it is what it is. But make no mistake here: there is a HUGE disconnect between the Jersey Surf music's general effect on approx. 200,000 people with that of 6 other people's evaluation of the music's general effect on THEM. I think you make a remarkedly cogent argument. I'm not one who challenges judges, but I would interested to hear an analysis from a DCI who judged them this as why they are placed in 17th in general effect. It would help me better understand the activity I enjoy so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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