GUARDLING Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 (edited) Not quite. Audience Engagement is the first bullet on the Repertoire Effect side of both GE sheets. It's a new addition to the effect sheets. You forget, I've been actively teaching in DCI within the last couple of years. I've lived this stuff up close. I can't tell you where Surf should have finished this year, give they have at least two performances in Indy yet to give. I can tell you where I'd have put them, overall, tonight though...*if* effect was judged correctly. Probably about 9th. Ahead of Academy and Glassmen tonight, and ahead of Troopers, Colts, Mandarins and Pioneer last night. So what's that put them at...15th maybe, as opposed to 19th? A jump, but not a huge one, given the issues in ensemble and performance captions. never mind.......lol Edited August 5, 2012 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 (edited) interesting John...I also am teaching in DCI and I wouldnt have had them in 9th at all.....lol....subjectivity I guaess.....PM me as to why you would ...just curious....dont want to start a firestorm here I would have based on effect scores. They certainly aren't achieving in the ensemble and performance captions better than the teams above them, but they are *destroying* them in both effect captions (and by that I mean they should be). But they way corps are placed (I hesitate to say slotted, because I don't think that's accurate), you're almost never going to see any caption other than maybe one performance caption swing above where the rest of the corps is placed. And it's even rougher on the bottom half of the rankings. I can tell you stories about brass judging in the bottom half of the class, and how it's darned near impossible to move up, even when you outplay the lines placing above you. And forget it if your line is smaller than those guys... Edited August 5, 2012 by Kamarag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasgre2000 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 So what is audience engagement supposed to measure? How loud the claps are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 So what is audience engagement supposed to measure? How loud the claps are? Sigh. Read one of the eleventy billion Devils threads in the World Class forum. It's been defined over and over... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 I would have based on effect scores. They certainly aren't achieving in the ensemble and performance captions better than the teams above them, but they are *destroying* them in both effect captions (and by that I mean they should be). But they way corps are placed (I hesitate to say slotted, because I don't think that's accurate), you're almost never going to see any caption other than maybe one performance caption swing above where the rest of the corps is placed. And it's even rougher on the bottom half of the rankings. I can tell you stories about brass judging in the bottom half of the class, and how it's darned near impossible to move up, even when you outplay the lines placing above you. And forget it if your line is smaller than those guys... yeah i deleted my post figuring you were talking about music effect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasgre2000 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 (edited) To be honest, I would rather just have the members of the audience rank their favorite corps, and then incorporate an average of the rankings into the final score, than have the judges trying to judge how an audience is reacting to a show. Talk about subjective. Are the judges supposed to read audience member's minds? And does the make-up of the audience mean scores vary depending on whether a show is in California or Allentown? And is a screaming audience the only type of positive reaction we are looking for in drum corps? BD's show this year is in my top 5 favorite shows this year. I find myself completely enthralled with their show from beginning to end. And yet ... I never felt compelled to jump out of my seat and cheer loudly (probably because the show ends quietly). Am I not engaged because I am not standing on my seat by the end? That just seems like a silly way to judge drum corps to me. Edited August 5, 2012 by jasgre2000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liahona Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Not buying The Academy's score without the penalty. They unfortunately had a seriously rough run tonight and the score reflected that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasgre2000 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 (edited) Note how the judges sheet defined audience engagement: "To what extent does the realization of repertoire, and conceptual vision, engage the audience through compelling impact, contour, shape, pace, development, etc. over time?" That doesn't sound like the same thing as "Who is playing the most familiar music the loudest?" or "Whose show is the most entertaining?" Jersey Surf's show is quite entertaining, but I'm not sure there is a lot of "contour, shape, pace, development, etc." Edited August 5, 2012 by jasgre2000 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Note how the judges sheet defined audience engagement: "To what extent does the realization of repertoire, and conceptual vision, engage the audience through compelling impact, contour, shape, pace, development, etc. over time?" That doesn't sound like the same thing as "Who is playing the most familiar music the loudest?" You're right. It's not. Surf's version of audience engagement just happens to be more overt than most other corps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liahona Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Hey all, Thanks for the complements on my tweets (I am @loudbrass). My wife was tweeting as @michelle_ad. I apologize for the all-thumbs typing and auto-correct nonsense. Hard to type on an iPhone while watching the corps. I'll type up a full review of both nights, but in the meantime... By far, no-bull, hands down the best Allentown crowd I've ever seen, both nights. Unlike recent years, they gave it up for everyone from Pioneer on up to Blue Devils. No one got ignored. And a short rant: And as for "audience engagement", if it was TRULY being judged correctly, Jersey Surf would have been scored in the top 5 in effect music and effect visual. Sure, they were 19th in all three performance captions and both ensembles, but they were absolutely, without a doubt SCREWED by the effect judges. It's clear to me now that the new sheets are worthless if it's the same old judges doing what they do. Surf owned the crowd tonight, above all other corps, which again wasn't easy with performances by Madison, SCV and Cadets. I am now officially on the bandwagon in favor of a MAJOR overhaul of the judging system. I agree with this statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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