Isn't there a major show tonight in Allentown?

[jasgre2000]

Nope. The perfect example is the most engaging corps this season. The Blue Devils are clearly engaging audiences everywhere they go, and they are far from the most "entertaining" corps that gets loud cheers. I don't think anyone would argue that Devils aren't nailing all three legs of the triad either.

I do agree with that. They are one of the two corps that I feel have shows that completely engage me from start to finish.

[Kamarag]

I agree an effect is an effect clean or not BUT how much of an effect is it if its an attempt and then unsuccessful..................visually effect, when only an attempt isnt a positve...IMO...if we judge like that and reward attempt..then every lower corps , any corps for that matter could just throw out the kitchen sink onto the field and succeed with it....that doesnt put the better corps ahead, it just puts the corps who ATTEMPTED things.

So are you saying that Surf is attempting but not achieving? I'd argue that one until I'm blue in the face when it comes to effect. Especially the entire LMFAO segment. Achievement in effect isn't the same as it is in ensemble and performance captions.

As for the kitchen sink, that's been done. Velvet Knights in 1988. :)

...and on that note, I need sleep. We can continue to beat each other over the head tomorrow :)

Edited August 5, 2012 by Kamarag

[GUARDLING]

So are you saying that Surf is attempting but not achieving? I'd argue that one until I'm blue in the face when it comes to effect. Especially the entire LMFAO segment. Achievement in effect isn't the same as it is in ensemble and performance captions.

As for the kitchen sink, that's been done. Velvet Knights in 1988. :)

youre judging Effect merely on attempt or emotion ( whether done well or not )...which a judge or a person could or could NOT find humerous or effective.....achievement is achievement.....If I look at some big company front ( just an example ) and it hits sloppy, maintains sloppy and breaks sloppy ) is it an attempt at an effect? yes..audience loive it? mostly...rewarded? NO...if not done well, what was achieved? attempt

Edited August 5, 2012 by GUARDLING

[jasgre2000]

To be honest ... after looking at the judging sheet ... I don't see how judges can be anything BUT subjective. I don't know that there is an objective, measurable element on the entire sheet. It is all open to interpretation.

[GUARDLING]

But isn't a show more effective if it is clean than if it isn't? We shouldn't be rewarding gimmickry, should we?

yes it is.............im not judging Surf or anyone for that matter BUT if you put corps A who attempts effect against corps B who attempts and succeeds the effect...Corps B wins period

Edited August 5, 2012 by GUARDLING

[jasgre2000]

yes it is.............im not judging Surf or anyone for that matter BUT if you put corps A who attempts effect against corps B who attempts and succeeds the effect...Corps B wins period

That has to be true. If it weren't true, a corps could move up just by doing a bunch of cheap tricks (like upside down tenors ... love the Cavies, but that was nothing but a gimmick) poorly.

[GUARDLING]

To be honest ... after looking at the judging sheet ... I don't see how judges can be anything BUT subjective. I don't know that there is an objective, measurable element on the entire sheet. It is all open to interpretation.

this is also true.....there are descrptions of the breakdown elements and what they mean for judges BUT how one interprets each and every word becomes subjective and this can be said of most captions not just effect....even when the tic system was around and people thought , well its simple a tic for a mistake...it was even more subjective and a hot mess

[GUARDLING]

That has to be true. If it weren't true, a corps could move up just by doing a bunch of cheap tricks (like upside down tenors ... love the Cavies, but that was nothing but a gimmick) poorly.

its what im saying..maybe i wasnt clear with my post to John.......you cant or shouldnt get credit for attempt I dont care whos jumping around...if that were the case corps 22 ( or whoever ) can ATTEMPT, get a crowd going for whatever reason and do very well, so how does that make them a better corps...it doesnt. Dont get me wrong , at that level of placement a corps needs to do something to get noticed and in a positive way, they dont have to be the best of the best , they have to look like they have potential and get noticed and Surf certainly has done that for whatever reasons are, and there could be several, from entertainment ( subjective ) to nostaglia, to just plain ole being differnt, which works.

Another thing , it's like when corps get all excited about doing an anniversary show , who cares! other than those involved from their history and fans maybe from that particular year. I'st all well and good corps want to do these shows BUT to think everyone should get into it or a judge should reward it merely because it got some clapping due to the history is not judging it on its own merritt...Can it still have effect, sure, maybe, possibibly, just depends how its done and how well it was done and came across

Edited August 5, 2012 by GUARDLING

[Geneva]

Well, I'd argue differently. I think Surf is hitting all three legs of the effect triad, though I know many would say they only hit two of the three (they'd be wrong).

I would like to read a description of the current judging sheets' caption criteria. Where do I find it?

[emc2]

Not buying Cavies 2nd in brass.

Cav's horns were out of tune at boston show. We will see how Boston show dose in the Dome.