13strokeroll Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 But if the starter division can compete on a weekend only basis with maybe a regional championship attended by a few of the bigger corps, that would go a long way to helping the situation for startups. Over time as those kids look for a bigger challenge, you might see some of those kids move up to one of the bigger corps. Done properly this could work. We think similarly, but I fear you might be slightly off track. I think the success of the whole system relies on the elite being able to draw from the talent of the next closest; but it is only successful when there is reinvestment back. If either of these fail, they both eventually do. I think the "separate but equal'" model would fail to maintain the integrity of the metasystem. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Believe it or not, my understanding is that everyone will be a little happy and a little not happy at the same time. That's probably a sign that it's a good plan, IMO. most everyone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Simple...when Americans became enamored with competitive entertainment. Let me see..... America's Got Talent, American Idol, Dancing with the Stars, Top Chef, Survivor, The Apprentice, Top Model, The Bachelor (forgive me), Top Everything,.......need I go on? Winning and Losing is in our nature and the majority of our society is fascinated with it. So, make peace with competition and embrace it. Finally, just look at the number of threads that pop up each year (this more than most) dealing with the disappointment of outcomes and the desire to split from the activity as a result. The Corps did their thing, performed beautifully, pouring their hearts out and we ##### about outcomes. That, my friend, is competition. So...to elevate the interest, you need to elevate the number of competitive Tiers and bring what is already in the trenches to the award stand. wait...Idol has multiple winners? I thought one person won for the season. Seems like all of those shows have one winner come to think of it. sorry, but it's just more of the ######## everyone's a winner mentality that has fostered a sense of entitlement into our scoeity that has done nothing but make it worse, not better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 We think similarly, but I fear you might be slightly off track. I think the success of the whole system relies on the elite being able to draw from the talent of the next closest; but it is only successful when there is reinvestment back. If either of these fail, they both eventually do. I think the "separate but equal'" model would fail to maintain the integrity of the metasystem. Interesting. What form would you see that "reinvestment back" taking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 But if the starter division can compete on a weekend only basis with maybe a regional championship attended by a few of the bigger corps, that would go a long way to helping the situation for startups. Over time as those kids look for a bigger challenge, you might see some of those kids move up to one of the bigger corps. Done properly this could work. The problem I see is that there would need to be enough "starter" corps in a very small geographic area to create a enough of a competitive season to attract members to march in such a weekend-only corps. Note that the Cadets2 participate in DCA, I would guess partially for that reason. They are just one weekend-only corps, with great name recognition and a powerful tie-in to USBands, and even they had difficulty filling out the horn line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13strokeroll Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 (edited) Interesting. What form would you see that "reinvestment back" taking? And that would be the 500 lb gorilla in the room. I can only add an anecdote: if the Yankees (both beloved and despised much as another group) were to rely solely on minor league prospects, they'd soon devolve into the Stankees, due to a dwindling experienced talent pool at the highest level. It is only through clubs such as, say the Royals, that that pool exists,proven through competition at the same level of competition. The Royals may not vie for the pennant; but it is their exposure and competition at the highest level that gives the yanks the pool they rely on to remain on top. A championship AAA prospect would not have that experience. Edited August 17, 2012 by 13strokeroll 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doylejd Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 The problem I see is that there would need to be enough "starter" corps in a very small geographic area to create a enough of a competitive season to attract members to march in such a weekend-only corps. Note that the Cadets2 participate in DCA, I would guess partially for that reason. They are just one weekend-only corps, with great name recognition and a powerful tie-in to USBands, and even they had difficulty filling out the horn line. This is the one area where the WGI model breaks down. You can have a WGI Percussion Ensemble compete at a local guard show; my group has done it for two seasons where sometimes we'll be the only line there, but we're attached to an existing event. Either way, we only do 4-6 shows a season, counting our national appearances. Students will have to (and I'm sure that they will) accept only doing a limited number of shows to match the limited rehearsal time provided. Each group could just prepare for a swing of the local DCI shows. Groups in the Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas area would have it the best by being able to hit the shows in their state around the same time as the San Antonio regional and still have a fulfilling "tour" experience. After that, it would be the administration's decision whether or not to attend Finals in Indy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Students will have to (and I'm sure that they will) accept only doing a limited number of shows to match the limited rehearsal time provided. Each group could just prepare for a swing of the local DCI shows. Groups in the Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas area would have it the best by being able to hit the shows in their state around the same time as the San Antonio regional and still have a fulfilling "tour" experience. After that, it would be the administration's decision whether or not to attend Finals in Indy. I'm not as sanguine as you that there are lots of kids just waiting to spend a lot of time working on a show just to compete 3 or 4 times pre season, if they are lucky. What about geographic areas where DCI comes to town once a year, and maybe not even on a weekend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 The problem I see is that there would need to be enough "starter" corps in a very small geographic area to create a enough of a competitive season to attract members to march in such a weekend-only corps. Note that the Cadets2 participate in DCA, I would guess partially for that reason. They are just one weekend-only corps, with great name recognition and a powerful tie-in to USBands, and even they had difficulty filling out the horn line. In Ontario we are networking a few people in different cities interested in getting something started in their area. We have a small cache of equipment and uniforms that can be loaned out as the groups get on their feet and start appearing in local parades etc. Right now to my knowledge there are 5 such start up projects underway. With the addition of established bands and ensembles, alumni corps and the Blue Saints we could potentially have enough for a decent show in each of those cities in a couple of years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 And that would be the 500 lb gorilla in the room. I would love to see a couple of things, not sure if they would fly, but... 1 - WC corps in the top 12 agree not to sign any member that has not had at least one year's experience in one of the lower tiers (can't see them ever agreeing to that one....) 2 - WC corps actively encourage participation in lower tier corps to all unsuccessful autidition candidates. Hand them a list of corps to try out for, and make the list of cuts available to lower tier management teams. 3 - WC corps make management and instructional mentoring available free of charge or at a bare-bones rate to lower tier management and staffs. Just my ideas - maybe you folks have more and better ideas. These things would all help smaller corps and broaden the base of the pyramid. Will we ever see any of them happen? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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