craiga Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 I don't buy the original premise--that the stands were full back in the day and they're NOT now. Like TimK, I went to the CYO Nationals, Beanpot Invitational, and East Coast Classic (all in Boston) and the stands were PACKED. I, too, went to Allentown and THAT place was packed on BOTH nights, with crowds EASILY larger than when I marched in the early 80s. A HUGE crowd was at the TOC in NJ as well--I was there! Furthermore, didn't San Antonio and Altanta regionals set new records for attendance? At 52, I guess I'm a Dinosaur, but honestly, some folks my age insist on looking back with rose-colored glasses. Touring didn't kill all those little corps from the 70s and 80s...mismanagement did. And yeah, I love my Legacy dvds for all the memories they bring back; but as a visual guy, they put me to sleep compared to the Cadets/Crown/Boston/SCV/Phantom, etc of today. A two-minute "concert piece" with no drill and endless sequential drop spins in the guard bores me to death. Thank God the activity continues to evolve! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 I don't buy the original premise--that the stands were full back in the day and they're NOT now. Like TimK, I went to the CYO Nationals, Beanpot Invitational, and East Coast Classic (all in Boston) and the stands were PACKED. I, too, went to Allentown and THAT place was packed on BOTH nights, with crowds EASILY larger than when I marched in the early 80s. A HUGE crowd was at the TOC in NJ as well--I was there! Furthermore, didn't San Antonio and Altanta regionals set new records for attendance? At 52, I guess I'm a Dinosaur, but honestly, some folks my age insist on looking back with rose-colored glasses. Touring didn't kill all those little corps from the 70s and 80s...mismanagement did. And yeah, I love my Legacy dvds for all the memories they bring back; but as a visual guy, they put me to sleep compared to the Cadets/Crown/Boston/SCV/Phantom, etc of today. A two-minute "concert piece" with no drill and endless sequential drop spins in the guard bores me to death. Thank God the activity continues to evolve! couldnt agree more on many points Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glory Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Actually I was alluding to the idea that people view the present through rose-coloured glasses too. Your reply proves the point. You couldn't acknowledge that there are problems. Everything old = bad, everything new = good. I didn't say there weren't any problems. I was just answering the original questions (and the views that support it). It's not for me to undermine my own argument. But just to prove I'm a good guy with a balanced point of view, I'll throw out a few negatives: Financial support - the cost of corps is unsustainable over the long term without "other peoples money" (OPM) for a foundation. OPM once derived from communities that took an interest in either drum corps, young people or some combination of the two. Those communities evaporated amid larger social and demographic changes. Where will we find OPM tomorrow? BD has bingo. That works until it doesn't. Cadets have USBands. That's two communities under similar pressures. Who can pitch in some OPM? Housing - Finding housing sites has been getting more and more difficult. It's difficult to see the trend reversing. And there's no economically feasible alternative. What next? Judges and Fans - Fans just can't get behind the judging criteria. This creates too big a gap between expecations and outcomes. DCI needs to reconcile the judging criteria so that fans understand what constitutes GE and therefore what deserves the highest score. That a good enough start? HH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 (edited) It's not for me to undermine my own argument. I appreciate your honesty here - we all do this! Financial support - the cost of corps is unsustainable over the long term without "other peoples money" (OPM) for a foundation. OPM once derived from communities that took an interest in either drum corps, young people or some combination of the two. Those communities evaporated amid larger social and demographic changes. Where will we find OPM tomorrow? BD has bingo. That works until it doesn't. Cadets have USBands. That's two communities under similar pressures. Who can pitch in some OPM? Cost has always been an issue. Corps folded in the 70's too. With a history of this problem I think drum corps needs a seriousl navel-gaze to see what will make itself sustainable for existing corps, and achievable for new corps. Again - this is why I look at regional circuits. Housing - Finding housing sites has been getting more and more difficult. It's difficult to see the trend reversing. And there's no economically feasible alternative. What next? Did not know this. I remember having an issue or two on tour in years past, but I wasn't aware of a growing trend. Interesting info - thanks. Judges and Fans - Fans just can't get behind the judging criteria. This creates too big a gap between expecations and outcomes. DCI needs to reconcile the judging criteria so that fans understand what constitutes GE and therefore what deserves the highest score. It was ever thus. But I agree. Edited September 4, 2012 by Grandpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyDad Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 [*]Judges and Fans - Fans just can't get behind the judging criteria. This creates too big a gap between expecations and outcomes. DCI needs to reconcile the judging criteria so that fans understand what constitutes GE and therefore what deserves the highest score. That a good enough start? HH I would say: Judges and Fans - Judging community just can't come up with criteria that involves crowd enjoyment of the show. This creates too big a gap. DCI needs to adjust the judging criteria so the fans feel some input into the outcome. There's too big a disconnect between judging sheets and fan appeal, and it needs to be addressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 (edited) I would say: Judges and Fans - Judging community just can't come up with criteria that involves crowd enjoyment of the show. This creates too big a gap. DCI needs to adjust the judging criteria so the fans feel some input into the outcome. There's too big a disconnect between judging sheets and fan appeal, and it needs to be addressed. the big issue with what youre asking is that enjoyment, entertainment, good, bad,like, dislikes are all subjective and will vary from show to show, and person to person. Fans can not be part of outcome because I think many things get in the way including the fact that most in a audience wont know or care about any criteriaand hopefully there just to enjoy and not analyze. I guess gone are the days of a spectator being just that......a spectator Edited September 4, 2012 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 the big issue with what youre asking is that enjoyment, entertainment, good, bad,like, dislikes are all subjective and will vary from show to show, and person to person. Fans can not be part of outcome because I think many things get in the way including the fact that most in a audience wont know or care about any criteriaand hopefully there just to enjoy and not analyze. I guess gone are the days of a spectator being just that......a spectator The other thing is that with fan voting, the hometown corps always wins, corps with the biggest entrourage comes second, etc. I think the "fan engagement" thing was an attempt, but it missed the mark. Not sure what the solution would be short of a non-judge judge, a person from the music or entertainment community who could assess fan friendliness without the sheet criteria weighing them down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 The other thing is that with fan voting, the hometown corps always wins, corps with the biggest entrourage comes second, etc. I think the "fan engagement" thing was an attempt, but it missed the mark. Not sure what the solution would be short of a non-judge judge, a person from the music or entertainment community who could assess fan friendliness without the sheet criteria weighing them down. very true ...also believe it or not the amount of fan assesment of who tore it up on a given night is also subjective. ( Ive been at shows that a corps would get a decent response but the next day go on facebook or DCP and fans will say " 12 standing Os EVERYONE LOVED THEM, EVERYONE STOOD UP " I scratch my head and say..hmmm was I at the same show. funny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 very true ...also believe it or not the amount of fan assesment of who tore it up on a given night is also subjective. ( Ive been at shows that a corps would get a decent response but the next day go on facebook or DCP and fans will say " 12 standing Os EVERYONE LOVED THEM, EVERYONE STOOD UP " I scratch my head and say..hmmm was I at the same show. funny Agreed. Everyone loved 27th Lancers, unless of course, you were a Crusaders fan, right? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Agreed. Everyone loved 27th Lancers, unless of course, you were a Crusaders fan, right? lol...ahhha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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