actucker Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 it's a derogatory term used by many people who detest the overpowering application of low end synth in far too many shows, both indoor and outdoor that do in fact cover up the rest of the music ensemble. Actually, outside of this forum, I've never heard that term mentioned. Not once. I've been teaching in the activity since before the advent of electronics, and somehow, this is the only place I ever hear (or read I guess) that term. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Except for judges, based on your posts in the dinosaur thread. judges dont have to feel the same BUT need to stay with criteria....and audience doesnt have to, which is or should be a luxury.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Actually, outside of this forum, I've never heard that term mentioned. Not once. I've been teaching in the activity since before the advent of electronics, and somehow, this is the only place I ever hear (or read I guess) that term. oh I travel in circles where it has morphed out to from DCP, and in fact has become standardly used, even in UD arena for WGI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
actucker Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 oh I travel in circles where it has morphed out to from DCP, and in fact has become standardly used, even in UD arena for WGI Interestingly enough, I go to UD arena every year. Never once heard the term mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 all i'll say here is they won't go away, balance issues will continue to be ignored, and corps still won't use them creatively, they'll just go for the tried and true of low end synth thats way too loud and some effects. SOME corps will have balance issues, SOME corps won't use them creatively, etc. On the flip side, I think that SOME corps will also balance their electronics and SOME corps will use them creatively. And SOME corps will have brass balance problems (I heard a few corps on the Fan Network Semis feed that had a few balance issues with brass players sticking out of the ensemble, or battery over-powering brass at inappropriate times). SOME corps will not be visually creative, and will just go for the tried and true formations and development that corps have been doing for years. Such is our activity: some groups are wildly creative and proficient, some groups are unimaginative and dirty, and a lot of corps are somewhere in the middle. Also, I've heard judge's tapes that commented on balance issues with electronics. I think many judges treat it the same way they treat a fracked solo, or a player stumbling on turf, and give it the proper (deserved) credit. Do people really think that, say, if a corps is executing extremely well musically & visually, but the synth is a little loud at times, that they corps' placement should be slammed? Or even that a corps should drop a placement just because their pit is "too loud" (argumentative) at times? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glory Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 You mean like the checklist in the late 70's and early 80's? ... Thank you, Chuck, for pointing out what ought to be obvious. Drum corps has always moved in waves that saw a lot of sameness even among the several styles. Yes, there were outliers like Bridgemen or Cadets who tried new things for a time. Generally, as Chuck points out, there was a lot in common be it the 70s, 80s or now. Some of the sameness changed (we couldn't take any more Children of Sanchez!). Some remains (company front). Some continues to evolve incrementally (instrumentation). Yet for those of us invested in the activity, those of us who appreciate it for what it is (now and then), that sameness isn't so bad. I don't see how any of us could have watched finals this year and concluded all the shows were alike. BD wasn't like Crown, which wasn't like Phantom, which wasn't like Cadets. Nor were SCV, Coats, etc. Irononically, if there was any common thread through most of the shows this year, it was that so many corps pulled out a familiar tune from the past to entertain us (Fanfare, Nessum Dorma, Jupiter, Masquerade and pretty much all of the reps of Cadets, Scouts, Surf and others). HH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 (edited) It always comes back to music. Always. Whether on the move or standing still... it's still about the music. Spoken eloquently and thru the perspective prism of a brass arranger. Some might respectfully disagree however that " its still about the music ". I submit that its more about the Visual and Guard. For example, it is my belief that ( for example ) The Cavaliers do not fall out of the top 7 this year if they had a strong Visual program. Their Percussion line was fine. They had veterans and maturity in the brass line and the Corps returning veterans did not suddenly lose their ability to play their Brass Instruments in one year, and the music and brass playing sounded ok to my ears. No, it was the Visual program that was primarily, and above all else, their undoing. Had they had their usually strong Visual Program, it is my view that even their Brass and Music Ensemble scores would have gone up from what they received in scores in these captions this year. Its quite remarkable to me how this seems to work on the judging sheets. The Visual bleeds into the brass and music scores, more than the other way around. Bad Visuals seem to take Corps down further than similarly bad music or brass playing. So, no, its not about the Music, imo. Not any more. Its more important to have a stong Guard and Visual Program. A single Guard performer, for example, carries more weight on the current scoring sheets than a single baritone player. If a baritone player fracs some notes in performance nobody notices... maybe not even the judge on the field. But if a Guard performer drops a couple of equipment tosses, everybody, including judges up in the booth, notice right away. Brass have 80 in line. Guards have less than half that. Do we account for these rather large disparate numbers on the current score sheets ? No, not in my view . The pathway to a DCI Title is to have no section weakness compared with Corps surrounding you. But if you have to have a section that is a tad less strong than your competitors around you, it had better not be the Visual Program. One of the biggest " changes " noticeable from earlier decades to me is the transformative way we have moved from primarily a Musical medium to a Visual medium. I believe The Cavaliers 2012 are Exhibit A of many other examples that one could provide for this assessment and observation. Thats my take here in 2012 anyway with our judging sheets and how the activity " has changed and evolved " Edited September 5, 2012 by BRASSO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 You mean like the checklist in the late 70's and early 80's? Well I could take each of these to task in turn (Spanish music, Muchachos, check. Troopers? Phantom?) But - if you think this was a bad thing, where's that evolution we keep hearing about? By your measure we just traded one tick list for another. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arrangerx Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Well I could take each of these to task in turn (Spanish music, Muchachos, check. Troopers? Phantom?) But - if you think this was a bad thing, where's that evolution we keep hearing about? By your measure we just traded one tick list for another. Answer ANY of the 15 or so questions I posted previously? Please? Picking one fight after another is no way to make progress. You have my attention for about another 10 minutes before I decide you're just another guy complaining on the 'net. Let's be brutally honest okay? I'll ask you to pick apart my work, any corps, any year, and we'll have a discussion. Ready. Set. Go. Chuck Naffier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arrangerx Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Well I could take each of these to task in turn (Spanish music, Muchachos, check. Troopers? Phantom?) But - if you think this was a bad thing, where's that evolution we keep hearing about? By your measure we just traded one tick list for another. Troopers: 1981, 1982 En Sueno, Troopers: 1980, 1981 Central Park (Chick Corea) Phantom Regiment: 2004 show, 1993 Estancia, MF's version of Pagliacci in 1977, and revisted in 1991? C'mon... you don't hear the attempts at playing that style? Chuck Naffier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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