Pete Freedman Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 I don't think complying with copyright would mean blocking corps access to new media use. Look at it this way. DCI can either: A. Continue as now, where the majority of clips are allowed but a few are blocked from video after the fact (resulting in damaging the video experience considerably), or B. Enforce copyright of clips, in which the corps start the process earlier, the majority of clips would still be allowed, but a few would be substituted with something legal. So either way we are only dealing with the illegal clips. And the only choice is between the substitution at finals or botching the video for all time. DCI currently chooses the latter, which is a shame. And the result would only rarely be a prevention of use; it would only result in earlier preparation by the corps. One more thing, in my brief reading on this today it appears that sync licensing involves actual negotiation with lawyers over price and other issues. I presume DCI is admitting to these lawyers (who will certainly ask) the fact that the recording already occurred. Result: the price goes way up. They know they have you over a barrel. But if they know the corps can use something else, the price could be more reasonable. Again, I'm not an expert; this is just based on what I've read online today, which is that it involves price negotiation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaos001 Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Me dos. I thought I lost the disc once and went into freakout mode. I have friends who are extrememly jealous! Or you could just find the Easter egg on the "On the Road" DVD. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 No vocals (sampled or otherwise) = no problems. Hardly...e.g. 2011 Madison Scouts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 How do you know that the Cadets did not acquire the rights to use the snippets in their show? That is not the same thing as DCI acquiring the rights for the audio/DVD. When I said "rights", I was thinking of both performance and recordings thereof. Since the Cadets produce so much of their own audio and video, they need the same rights as DCI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Freedman Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 How do you know that the Cadets did not acquire the rights to use the snippets in their show? That is not the same thing as DCI acquiring the rights for the audio/DVD. It doesn't matter who acquires the rights (that is, who's employee actually is responsible for the acquisition). But DCI must require that they be obtained, that's the point. I would expect DCI would make it the responsibility of all corps to obtain all rights necessary for any predictable use, including web streaming, dvds, mp3s, etc. But, since these negotiations appear to be a unique skill set, they (DCI) could offer the service of obtaining them. If a corps felt that they have their own person who would do a better job, fine. Is this how it's done? I hope they are not, as you suggest, dividing the rights into those for works the corps is playing, for which they are held responsible, and those for media clips, which DCI says "we'll take care of." If so, that's the underlying cause of the problem, since it clearly tells the corps they are not responsible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowtown Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 (edited) I think some these design choices can EASILY be accomplished in ways that do NOT violate sync rights. Cadets could've easily had someone else record the same voice-over/narration and get the point/effect across and still have 100% of their show in compliance. Same with Cavaliers last year (and I have heard that Cavaliers DID have a plan B to be compliant but chose instead to keep the sample, knowing it would have to be edited after the fact). Obviously, this is not the answer all the time. Scouts chose to use Empire State of Mind, and clearly they could do nothing to change that issue (short of using a different song). Same thing with Crown last year. While I still think there is a fundamental philosophical issue/debate to be had, clearly DCI designers, and DCI themselves seemingly choose live performance effect over residual media/archive. Only time will tell if that is the best option, and while having Scouts 2011 show massively incomplete on my Blu-ray helped me make the decision to not purchase this year's Blu-rays, plenty of others don't seem to have a problem with it. We are all hoping that this does not become a wide-spread thing, or a "norm" in the activity, and more just an occasional anomaly. We'll see I pretty much agree Curious, what was Cavies plan B? Was it to use the Nat King Cole version? They could have pulled the same sample from it which brings me too…David Bowie is very a shrewd businessmen, it’s well known that if you get the license, you are going to pay…he sold shares of himself. it’s his model…and when I heard that ‘Fame’ sample of his in this years’ show…instantly, I was thinking Why would they even? And not paying attention to them on the field….maybe it was short enough…we’ll see….same with ESOM, its been known for years that they knock off any youtubes of that song almost daily, it’s often cited in articles of being an overly protected piece almost to its detriment or praised as maintaining monetary control and artist empowerment, depending on the slant of the article Some of these choices are more deliberate or stupid than the fans want to think Edited October 11, 2012 by cowtown 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 It doesn't matter who acquires the rights (that is, who's employee actually is responsible for the acquisition). But DCI must require that they be obtained, that's the point. I would expect DCI would make it the responsibility of all corps to obtain all rights necessary for any predictable use, including web streaming, dvds, mp3s, etc. But, since these negotiations appear to be a unique skill set, they (DCI) could offer the service of obtaining them. If a corps felt that they have their own person who would do a better job, fine. Is this how it's done? I hope they are not, as you suggest, dividing the rights into those for works the corps is playing, for which they are held responsible, and those for media clips, which DCI says "we'll take care of." If so, that's the underlying cause of the problem, since it clearly tells the corps they are not responsible. I would think that for audio and video, whoever records the material takes copyright of it, and whoever sells the product secures the licensing for that product. Recordings of DCI events, therefore, would be DCI's property, while footage from other events or behind the scenes usually belongs to the corps. DCI then gives each corps permission to use DCI recordings of themselves, and in those cases, both DCI and the individual corps end up obtaining mechanical, synchronization or streaming licensing for the same material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 I would think that for audio and video, whoever records the material takes copyright of it, and whoever sells the product secures the licensing for that product. Recordings of DCI events, therefore, would be DCI's property, while footage from other events or behind the scenes usually belongs to the corps. DCI then gives each corps permission to use DCI recordings of themselves, and in those cases, both DCI and the individual corps end up obtaining mechanical, synchronization or streaming licensing for the same material. Thought someone posted that DCI puts the onus on the corps to secure all rights including all recording/selling. Big reason would be the amount of time/effort involved for DCI to get the rights for x number of songs times x number of corps. And that's not even considering the mess when shows get changed. IOW - not workible for DCI to handle all this. Pretty sure the same applies for DCA with the Mini Corps and competing corps. Anyone with better info feel free to correct me.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 It doesn't matter who acquires the rights (that is, who's employee actually is responsible for the acquisition). But DCI must require that they be obtained, that's the point. I would expect DCI would make it the responsibility of all corps to obtain all rights necessary for any predictable use, including web streaming, dvds, mp3s, etc. But, since these negotiations appear to be a unique skill set, they (DCI) could offer the service of obtaining them. If a corps felt that they have their own person who would do a better job, fine. Is this how it's done? I hope they are not, as you suggest, dividing the rights into those for works the corps is playing, for which they are held responsible, and those for media clips, which DCI says "we'll take care of." If so, that's the underlying cause of the problem, since it clearly tells the corps they are not responsible. I thought from reading various threads over time that it is DCI's responsibility to acquire the rights for the audio and DVD's in the current environment. I am not in the know on that. Whether or not that is the right thing to do would be a topic for discussion, of course, but it would have no impact on the 2012 Cadets snippets. Apparently acquiring those type of rights appears to be much more time-consuming than acquiring the rights to use and arrange the material in the live show. I am on the side of the live performance being the driving factor in decising to use a piece, with audio/video being secondary, so I would not want a corps to be constrained in what they do for something that might or might not happen well down the road, and is out of their control anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Freedman Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 ….same with ESOM, its been known for years that they knock off any youtubes of that song almost daily, it's often cited in articles of being an overly protected piece almost to its detriment or praised as maintaining monetary control and artist empowerment, depending on the slant of the article Ironically, various clips of Madison playing it have apparently been there for months... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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