glory Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Thousands of musical selections have been arranged and performed by DCI corps without incident. I may be prone to getting things backwards, but this is not one of those cases. I do not think it is wise for individual corps to be deviating from DCI licensing policies in that manner. Not exactly. It is also about rights, which are not measured solely in dollars. If they were, the entire world of youth music would have a much easier time of it. Thousands without incident - yes. And still Madison's Empire State and Phantom's 2008 licensing mishaps have had a far greater impact on drum corps viewing than any audio clip problem this year or last. Those were pure music issues and each cost the finals video more than a minute of judged performance time. You can't blow this out of proportion as if a handful of audio clips have deprived DVD viewers of major portions of finals. If anything, music is the bigger culprit where licensing is concerned lately. The rights issue generally isn't yes or no. It never has been. All of us are allowed to quote copyrighted material. All of us are allowed to perform portions of copyrighted material. We can even derive some commercial benefits while making use of copyrighted material. These are all legal so long as we make fair use. And we do. Take a look at Youtube. In addition to many outright copyright infringements are numerous examples of fair use. We do it all the time in drum corps when we quote a few bars from a song or leverage some visual arts. It's legal, normal and even good. HH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) Reading thru all this I'm reminded of two things: 1) All it takes is one "Oh ####" to wipe out a thousand "attaboys".... To to apply to this thread - one good lawsuit could cripple/kill a corps and/or DCI and it wouldn't matter how many legal uses went on in the past. 2) Defending against even a bad/improper lawsuit can wipe out a groups or individuals finances. IOW - you could be totally in the right and still lose everything in court costs and lawyer fees. DCI isn't the only organization being overly carefull in legal issues... and I don't blame them at all in these sue me, sue you happy daze. Edited October 9, 2012 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrlandoContraAlum Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Really!? I've never seen this and the sound on the DVD makes me think otherwise. I'm really surprised by this.... Can anyone else verify? I know it's been talked about before. I'm pretty sure they mic the #### out of everything. Even an audience mic I am fairly sure that drumcat (DCI Audio Staff, posts here) said that for Quarterfinals, he uses a limited set of mics, just on the field (behind the speakers) so the QF APDs are more "pure". You can still hear the amped stuff, but not nearly as loud... and usually only during down phrases in the music. For the Semifinals webcast and Finals proper, there is a whole spectrum of mics in use, including crowd-facing, speaker-facing and end-zone mics. I will see if I can find his post about this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kickhaltsforlife Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I am fairly sure that drumcat (DCI Audio Staff, posts here) said that for Quarterfinals, he uses a limited set of mics, just on the field (behind the speakers) so the QF APDs are more "pure". You can still hear the amped stuff, but not nearly as loud... and usually only during down phrases in the music. For the Semifinals webcast and Finals proper, there is a whole spectrum of mics in use, including crowd-facing, speaker-facing and end-zone mics. I will see if I can find his post about this... Yes. I was remembering something like this. I'm pretty sure they attempt to record the whole space that way they can do more with the editing. But you can only go so far as to removing specific sounds from an echo dome.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 But they also place microphones directly in front of the speakers, wherever they might be for each corps. well yeah? How else can you pick up the low end synth so it makes your entire house rattle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Thousands without incident - yes. And still Madison's Empire State and Phantom's 2008 licensing mishaps have had a far greater impact on drum corps viewing than any audio clip problem this year or last. Those were pure music issues and each cost the finals video more than a minute of judged performance time. You can't blow this out of proportion as if a handful of audio clips have deprived DVD viewers of major portions of finals. If anything, music is the bigger culprit where licensing is concerned lately. The rights issue generally isn't yes or no. It never has been. All of us are allowed to quote copyrighted material. All of us are allowed to perform portions of copyrighted material. We can even derive some commercial benefits while making use of copyrighted material. These are all legal so long as we make fair use. And we do. Take a look at Youtube. In addition to many outright copyright infringements are numerous examples of fair use. We do it all the time in drum corps when we quote a few bars from a song or leverage some visual arts. It's legal, normal and even good. HH well I look at it this way....if DCI said no, or someone else said no, DCI's protecting their ### from being sued. So if someone gets desperate for GE in July and throws #### in the show without the rights, then sucks to be them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 The rights issue generally isn't yes or no. It never has been. All of us are allowed to quote copyrighted material. All of us are allowed to perform portions of copyrighted material. We can even derive some commercial benefits while making use of copyrighted material. These are all legal so long as we make fair use. Define "fair use" and where the dividing line is between getting sued and not getting sued. Also tell us how we can do all you described without getting in trouble that fits any and all circumstances. Personally I don't buy general statements like yours in a subject that can be nitpicked to death by details in court. When the judge says Guilty or Not Guilty, that sure as Hell IS yes or no. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glory Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 ... So if someone gets desperate for GE in July and throws #### in the show without the rights, then sucks to be them. Wait. Desperate? Because they used an audio clip? As opposed to using Empire State of Mind as the closer to an NYC theme? I don't understand the distinction. There are lots of good NYC songs. Many are even public domain. So was the selection of Empire State no less desperate for GE? We know in retrospect that the Empire State risk/impact was decidedly worse. It's convenient for some to make audio clips the arch villain because it serves a wider agenda. The fact is the video sync issue has had far worse ramifications when it came to music. HH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 It's convenient for some to make audio clips the arch villain because it serves a wider agenda. The fact is the video sync issue has had far worse ramifications when it came to music. HH What agenda? IMO, the problem here is using anything that may not be allowed on the recordings. Will take for granted the rights to perform were there as DCI let the corps on the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumcorpsfever Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) If there's a way to eliminate the unauthorized voice-overs without diminishing the sound quality of music that would be outstanding. BTW, (stated somewhat tongue-in-cheek) if that can be accomplished, do you think they could eliminate the sound of the occassional fan that yells during a finals performance for the sole purpose of getting their voice on the recording? I love pure fan reaction, but find these types of outbursts to be a bit selfish and distracting. This issue (fan etiquitte) could probably be its own topic discussion, so we can save it for another day. Edited October 9, 2012 by drumcorpsfever 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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