84BDsop Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 or just get rid of narration since it hasn't added anything positive to any show yet, imo. Disagree there...07 and 08 Bluecoats were very well done, and contributed to the show. 07 Crown wasn't bad either. 05 Cadets drumspeak was extremely cool (although I kinda wish the snare had been air-drumming it behind the vocalists during the last sequence) Now '12 BD.....I could live without. Depends on how it's used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frachel Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Disagree there...07 and 08 Bluecoats were very well done, and contributed to the show. 07 Crown wasn't bad either. 05 Cadets drumspeak was extremely cool (although I kinda wish the snare had been air-drumming it behind the vocalists during the last sequence) Now '12 BD.....I could live without. Depends on how it's used. Yea it's a polarizing topic gone over many times :-) For me personally, I haven't come across a single show where I thought narration *added* anything at all. There's been a few where it didn't detract, but most times it detracts from the show. Again, my opinion based on my enjoyment and preferences. For me it's to the point where I'm kind of ambivalent whether I'll go to a show or not next year, which is hard to fathom as someone who's been to at least one show a year since 1987. Depends on if my daughter wants to go back. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kickhaltsforlife Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 The best use of voice ever was at the end of Crown 07. For me it worked perfectly, and actually did add quite a lot! Really made the moment more exciting. And it also worked with the music very well! One of my favorite show endings from Crown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrlandoContraAlum Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 True, but that doesn't help for those who would like to watch, correct? (not fully up to speed on what you get from Fan Network) This is true. I know that on Fan Network, they have retroactively "fixed" the on-demand video files, so I would assume that they would also similarly fix the VPDs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillygwm Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 (edited) One thing that bothers me is that this is the first I heard of this issue. At least last year, we knew fairly early on in the process that ESOM was going to be a problem. Fan Network subscriptions expire and are renewed end of May/beginning of June, and I'm sure many people (myself included) decide at that time to purchase the package which includes DVD/Blu-Rays; now, 4 months after the fact, I find out I will receive what I consider to be an incomplete product. I would have loved to have been in Indy to see/hear everything live, but that didn't happen this year so the best option was to have the Blu-Rays-which will now have incomplete performances. This has happened before and it will happen again. I, too, bought the DVD's as part of the FN package and it's probably not a mistake I'll make again. The cost savings wasn't that significant; it would have paid to wait it out to see what got cut and, possibly, skip the Blu Ray entirely. What bothers me are people claiming the primacy of the live performance over the recorded one. I get it, there's the "electricity" of the live show and, obviously, that's the one being scored for posterity. But many, many more people will watch the recordings over the next decades than ever saw these corps live. They deserve to see something as close to a true reproduction as possible. Edited October 4, 2012 by Phillygwm 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 (edited) What bothers me are people claiming the primacy of the live performance over the recorded one. I get it, there's the "electricity" of the live show and, obviously, that's the one being scored for posterity. But many, many more people will watch the recordings over the next decades than ever saw these corps live. They deserve to see something as close to a true reproduction as possible. No to mention the members who only get to hear the true show (IOW the way the audience hears it) via the recordings..... Edited October 4, 2012 by JimF-LowBari 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Freedman Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 It sounds to me like the current practice of DCI is unprofessional and probably illegal. They apparently allow the various corps to perform all year without licenses in place. Presumably that's already illegal. (And don't tell me that's a different kind of license; if they could have gotten one they could have gotten the other) Fixing the video won't fix that problem. The damage is done. And what about all the other shows they put up on fan network. Are they going to edit those as well? What a nightmare. Here's my proposed rule change: At each show every performing corps (competing or exhibition) presents a list of all works to be performed either live or pre-recorded. Each work must specify it's licensing status; public domain, public performance license secured, or license pending. By finals week, any licenses for works that are still pending cannot be played. If the corps plays an unlisted/unlicensed work, DCI can weigh whether it was deliberate, and if so, disqualification is the clear answer. If not, and it's finals, the apparently current system of panicky DCI lawyering could still be used, with the corps paying a statutory financial penalty regardless of the success of the licensing. A community service option should be available for less well funded corps. The results: - Corps stop taking chances on licensing, and either secure it in advance or don't play it (like everyone else in show business). For pre-recorded bits they can chance it with 'pending' knowing they can simply remove it if it doesn't work out. (Pending means they certify that they have already initiated the process) - Corps would pick their shows a few months earlier, probably during the summer, to allow plenty of time for licensing. Big woop. I believe many licenses can be obtained very quickly if necessary. The mere fact that some take a long time is no excuse for this. - 1000 years from now marching arts fans will have a consistent set of historical drum corps goodness. - The activity stops blatantly violating copyright law during live performances. - Every once in a blue moon a corps gets in trouble for slipping in an unlicensed work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Freedman Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Oh, and another thing... Some people find these clips annoying, some think they are ok, and some find they are a significant addition to a show. Most seem to say it depends on how it's used. But how many people really believe these clips used by the Cadets this year were a critical success factor for their show? They were clearly used as embellishments only. They were completely optional. Does a single person here believe the show would have been severely damaged if they had substituted some clever clips produced by the corps? Would their score have been significantly less? I think not. The Cadets just didn't care. That's the clear message here. Please let me know if I'm misunderstanding this. I have sympathy for a teacher who violates copyright by showing a documentary to their class without obtaining an expensive public performance license. I'm not saying I approve, but logically the teacher's first priority is the education of their students. I get that. But that doesn't excuse blatantly ignoring copyright when there is no compelling reason to do so and the activity as a whole might be impacted. Sorry about the length of this diatribe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeN Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 (And don't tell me that's a different kind of license; if they could have gotten one they could have gotten the other) ... that's a different kind of license. Seriously, it is! And surprisingly, the criteria really does differ; there are many pieces where you can get permission to arrange without being able to obtain sync rights (which apply *only* to selling video, as I understand it). Again, as I understand it, even streaming (Fan Network) rights are a separate issue. It really is a mess, and it's only going to keep getting messier, honestly, as there's more and more interest in litigating these sorts of issues. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 (And don't tell me that's a different kind of license; if they could have gotten one they could have gotten the other) Ok. No one will tell you. (but the permissions *are* all different. and getting permission to arrange/perform does not imply anything at all about mechanicals, sync, or streaming) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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