Mello Dude Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Then again, the corps that don't see a problem pushing membership up to 150 and purchasing new toys every year to be avante guard and "pushing" the activity do not see the activity through the same lenses (money wise) the others do. How even is it to get sweet deals from horn and drum manufacturers times and again? This is HUGE not to mention other things. It's a catch 22, to get the endorsements and money you need to win and to win you need money. Having some CAP rules would not be the end of the world NOR punish those that have. Everyone wants new blood, but how can it ever happen if no one is allowed in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Then again, the corps that don't see a problem pushing membership up to 150 and purchasing new toys every year to be avante guard and "pushing" the activity do not see the activity through the same lenses (money wise) the others do. How even is it to get sweet deals from horn and drum manufacturers times and again? This is HUGE not to mention other things. It's a catch 22, to get the endorsements and money you need to win and to win you need money. Having some CAP rules would not be the end of the world NOR punish those that have. Everyone wants new blood, but how can it ever happen if no one is allowed in? You know why corps went from 128 to 150, right? Format of most busses changed to be able to fit more on 3 busses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobrien Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 (edited) There were and are a number of non-Finalist corps who spent almost as much (or more) than those who finished in the top 8. Kinda kills the "some corps win because they spend more" argument right out of the box. And if that argument is gone...then the purpose of a budget cap would be......? Edited February 4, 2013 by mobrien 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 You know why corps went from 128 to 150, right? Format of most busses changed to be able to fit more on 3 busses. I know that. Do they then all still have a staff bus OR do they use the extra space for staff to be on the bus with members? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 While a spending cap wouldn't necessarily assuredly level the playing field, it sure wouldn't hurt. However, I also agree that the spending cap should ONLY apply to staff. With (x) amount of dollars left over, the corps can do whatever they want - it's their money. However, if each corps had to be prudent on who they're flying in when, and where from, and how much they're getting paid, it sure would help. Sure, you'd have corps that staff members would "take less money to work for" just like pro sports. Also, just like pro sports, the teams with the highest salary won't always win, and the teams under the salary cap would have a shot as well. I like the proposal. Here's a twist, though - beyond Staff salaries, let the corps spend whatever they want on everything else. If one corps wants to overspend on the best busses, and another corps wants to have the best food, or the best rehearsal facilities, or horns, or letting the kids sleep in hotel beds... cool. Whatever. I, too, have long thought about posting this idea on these forums... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Disagreeing with both sides on this issue. While we're seeing topics (mostly from DanRay) about out-of-the-box ideas to "fix" DCI, I have a thought that seems to make sense: A spending cap on program service. Say, for instance, that a corps could spend no more than (pick a number) $800,000 to field a corps for competition. The smaller corps, which spend, say, $400m to $600m now, would find themselves in competition with the "top-corps". No - this idea is far too restrictive, and will end up creating disparities. Some corps have to spend more just to travel to/from where they are located, so a simplistic limit on "program service" expenditures will discriminate against corps like Cascades. Meanwhile - Competition is competition and making money is just as much a competition as what is out there on the field. Unfortunately, that is currently true. However - The issue here has nothing to do with lack of fairness or parity... - yes it does. DCI payouts are weighted toward the higher placing corps, helping keep them in place. The solution, instead, should be to create a culture that generously rewards management of organizations that are able to generate more revenues than required for sustaining the organization on a competitive level. A bingo bonus? What actually needs to change:1) Shift from non-profit mentality 2) Performance bonuses to attract experienced management 3) Corps management needs to understand that they don't necessarily need to make money in the same location they operate their educational programs in. The world is a pretty big place. So judging from the part I underlined, you are suggesting that all corps become California corporations, so they can all run bingo like BD and SCV? Seriously, though, there is a problem. We have seen from the 990s that of the top 17 or so corps, the more you spend, the higher you place. And for the top 17 or so corps, what is so different? Their kids are all talented and experienced; they eat the same amounts of food; their vehicles consume the same fuel; they use nearly identical equipment; they all sleep on gym floors; they do drum corps full time from when college lets out until finals night. The only line item where expense can be much different is staff. More money buys the best design staff, the best instructors, and more of them to increase the teacher-student ratio. A salary cap may not be a workable approach, but at least it addresses the issue instead of dancing around it. Maybe we need salary cap proposals on the table just for the sake of opening up negotiations. My own opinion is that in an ideal world, DCI payments to member corps would not be based on competitive placement. This is clearly one area where DCI can and should act to level the paying field. (Spelled that way on purpose.) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 DCI is not a collective, but a consortia. There is a very big difference. A collective is a group of interdependent organizations that do not necessarily function independently, but share work, resources and revenues in pursuit of a shared result. A consortia is a group of independent organizations that simply pools resources to collaborate on specific initiatives in pursuit of a common goal. The term Consortia also means an agreement by that group to undertake an initiative beyond the resources of any one member; a cross-ownership type arrangement between entities which means they, by definition, are supposed actually 'help each other' prosper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 I know that. Do they then all still have a staff bus OR do they use the extra space for staff to be on the bus with members? Mixing staff and members on the bus.... not appropriate. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kickhaltsforlife Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Mixing staff and members on the bus.... not appropriate. Why not...?? Because then the staff can't drink and act more immature than the members??? 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 no spending cap will help the on field product. a judging system weighted towards performance over the book will be the thing that can best help 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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