Stu Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 All of this is likely true, and I know the "size" of The Can grows when the smaller corps are there, although that didn't seem to dampen our enthusiasm at all. I'd imagine that most of the OC corps are very used to small crowds. Here is what I am getting at. If my jazz trio was touring in Southern California, I would much rather perform in front of 200 people at the Catalina Jazz Club rather than in front of 2000 people at the 17,000+ seat Hollywood Bowl. Why? Because the ambiance, feel, and audience engagement would be felt more intensely by our group at the smaller club venue than at the larger concert venue even though more people would actually be in attendance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 Haha... nice try, and WHAT a stretch to respond to my comment that there are less participants marching in DRUM CORPS today by wanting to include Drum Corps AND " scholastic competitive marching band " in the numbers. Thats quite the stretch, my friend. My comments were germane to " Drum Corps " as this is my chief focus, and by biggest interest and concern in its loss of so many annual numbers of marching participants over the years. They are all part of the same activity, so it is indeed germane to the discussion. I don't separate the two as you do. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 Do high school marching bands compete during the summer? Is drum corps and high school marching band an either/or thing? I don't understand the attempted linkage of the rise of high school marching band and the decline in drum corps. When I did it, I did both. And there wasn't a conflict. Is this another one of those strawmen that, under closer examination, falls apart? No, it is not as strawman. It is true. Why does the season matter in such a discussion? It doesn't. Also...no it is not an either/or thing. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 What were the raw numbers? 'Because'... 7,000 people in a 10,000 seat stadium looks, and feels, way larger with more of that electric audience buzz than 7,000 in a 60,000 seat stadium. I dont know...I remember seeing 10k somewhere about 02. DCI wasn't exactly good about announcing numbers back then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 Do high school marching bands compete during the summer? Is drum corps and high school marching band an either/or thing? I don't understand the attempted linkage of the rise of high school marching band and the decline in drum corps. When I did it, I did both. And there wasn't a conflict. Is this another one of those strawmen that, under closer examination, falls apart? in a way...kind of. competitive marching band really grew in the years drum corps started dying off in the 70s and 80s. To many kids, that was enough, and since there was fewer corps around, it was really their only option. I think it's more cause and effect in that schools started competing more and corps dying off that makes it look like HS took over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyDad Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 (edited) No, it is not as strawman. It is true. Why does the season matter in such a discussion? It doesn't. Also...no it is not an either/or thing. I was looking for some actual information / data. Not trite responses. Why does the season matter in such a discussion? What does that even mean? IS there a conflict between HS marching band and drum corps seasons that would make a person choose one or the other? Please explain why a rise in competitive HS marching bands would cause, or relate to, a fall in drum corps numbers. I do not understand the linkage. Are you saying, a student does HS marching band, so he's got his "itch" scratched and there's no need to do drum corps? These two were such vastly different experiences that there was no comparison. I couldn't comprehend one replacing another because they were two different things. Edited March 30, 2013 by HockeyDad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 Huh. And I say that as a resident of northeast Wisconsin. With several kids who went thru high school. And were in their HS band. I've never heard of this summer band circuit. How long has it been around? MACBDA has been around since 1972. As a matter of fact they are having a show outside the normal south central/southeastern Wisconsin area in Appleton this coming season. June 22nd is the date; with an additional pending date potentially in the area on June 23rd. Lutheran Vanguard is the host band, and one school (of several) that is a part of the Lutheran Vanguard summer band program is Fox Valley Lutheran (hence the Fox Valley connection), if I recall correctly. The Kilties are performing in the Madison Scouts DCI "Drums on Parade" gig the evening of June 29th, jumping on our buses after that performance and traveling to Sun Prairie to be the closing performing group at their MACBDA show as well.....two full field show performances in the same evening. We've done the same thing in past seasons when Drums on Parade and a MACBDA show are the same evening and close to each other....it's a blast!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slingerland Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 (edited) Please explain why a rise in competitive HS marching bands would cause, or relate to, a fall in drum corps numbers. I do not understand the linkage. Are you saying, a student does HS marching band, so he's got his "itch" scratched and there's no need to do drum corps? These two were such vastly different experiences that there was no comparison. I couldn't comprehend one replacing another because they were two different things. They're not anymore, and haven't been for 30 years now. The band directors saw that drum corps was cool, and marching band wasn't, and changed their style to match what the corps were doing, complete with mandatory band camps during the same period in August when the drum corps season was wrapping up. Since the style was more or less the same, and the calendar no longer made it possible to do both, and most school bands either have no cost, or negligible costs to the family, there wasn't much of a rationale for community drum corps anymore. Then you add in the rapid decline in veterans org membership, the aging of the baby boomers into adulthood, white flight from working class urban neighborhoods to suburbs (with better band programs), the spike in oil prices in the mid 70s, etc, etc, etc, and history and demographics conspired to make local drum corps a lot less feasible than it was before any of those things occurred. It became a situation where the members themselves decided that if they were going to put the effort into it, they were going to focus on making the cut at the organizations who were doing something bigger and better than their band program could do it, which necessarily put more focus on the corps who already had figured out how to run a national touring program, or on a handful of corps who decided that they wanted to grow into that type of organization. Edited March 30, 2013 by Slingerland 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyDad Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 (edited) They're not anymore, and haven't been for 30 years now. The band directors saw that drum corps was cool, and marching band wasn't, and changed their style to match what the corps were doing, complete with mandatory band camps during the same period in August when the drum corps season was wrapping up. Since the style was more or less the same, and the calendar no longer made it possible to do both, and most school bands either have no cost, or negligible costs to the family, there wasn't much of a rationale for community drum corps anymore. Then you add in the rapid decline in veterans org membership, the aging of the baby boomers into adulthood, white flight from working class urban neighborhoods to suburbs (with better band programs), the spike in oil prices in the mid 70s, etc, etc, etc, and history and demographics conspired to make local drum corps a lot less feasible than it was before any of those things occurred. It became a situation where the members themselves decided that if they were going to put the effort into it, they were going to focus on making the cut at the organizations who were doing something bigger and better than their band program could do it, which necessarily put more focus on the corps who already had figured out how to run a national touring program, or on a handful of corps who decided that they wanted to grow into that type of organization. Do HS students REALLY consider there to be no difference between a WC drum corps and their HS marching band? I can kind of see your point concerning HS marching bands supplanting your local weekend corps. But looking at the situation today.... do HS marching bands compete with the WC corps of today - do students see no difference between their marching band and a WC corps? Are they really "the same thing" as MikeD says? If so, well, okay. That explains the lack of growth of WC drum corps. If not, then, there are other, more involved, factors at play. And that means, these other factors could be explored and worked on. Edited March 30, 2013 by HockeyDad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 Please explain why a rise in competitive HS marching bands would cause, or relate to, a fall in drum corps numbers. I do not understand the linkage. There are a plethora of reasons many corps have folded over the years, and not all were associated with the growth of the HS marching band competitive explosion. Nevertheless, here is a generic example as to why that growth actually did play a historical roll: In the 1950's and 60's there were 500 - 600 - upwards of 1000 'Local' drum corps. While there were some 'Local' HS marching bands, they really never took field competition seriously, especially outside their immediate area. And HS youth at that time, especially those who had no band experience, or had a very poor band, or one that never traveled unless it was to a football game, those youth signed up with all of the 'Local' corps. By the mid 1970' the 'Local' corps, from say town ABC, State, was still providing a marching, musical, competitive outlet for 'Local' youth. The corps was doing parades, attending drum corps shows out on the road, and competing with other corps. But, the 'Local' HS had now developed a fledgling competitive marching band; but they still did not provided similar type of experiences (travel, competitive level, etc...) as the 'Local' corps. By the 1980's, while the 'Local' corps was still doing their thing, the 'Local' HS marching band had grown in numbers to around 100, had increased in competitive quality, and now competed all across the state. The HS had now also added a two-week summer band camp (during the time of the corps finals week). This started causing some issues between the 'Local' corps and the 'Local' HS band. Also, during this time period some other corps around the nation began to see the writing on the wall, so to speak, and began a run at strengthening their corps from outside of the area youth, heavily recruiting college age musically-trained youth from around the nation, and decided to drastically increase their corps quality and travel. Many, many, many other corps, however, including the corps from ABC, State, decided to stay 'Local' with a desire to continue to provide the same community services to the 'Local' HS age youth. By the 1990's, things had reversed from years past. The 'Local' HS Band consisted of over 200 members, was competing in the BOA and TOB Regionals/Nationals, and had camps, clinics, and sectionals all summer long. This meant that HS youth were not only being served with quality competition and out-of-state travel, they now had huge summer conflicts between band and corps. A few of the higher caliber youth would see that their school band was now of higher quality than the 'Local' corps and would either do the HS band or spend the multi-thousands of dollars to fly to a 'nationally competitive' corps which could provide even higher quality than their hs band. Meanwhile the 'Local' corps from ABC, State had dwindled to fourteen kids who were not interested in the hs band and not capable to go to a nationally competitive corps, and subsequently the 'Local' corps plummeted in quality and had to fold. The New Millennium: Things are now completely different from the 1970's. An overwhelming number of 'Local' Drum Corps, just like the one from ABC, State, had died out; a correlation associated with competitive HS Marching Bands increasing in numbers as well as increasing in quality along with increasing time commitment conflicts. And the few 'Nationally' competitive high quality Drum Corps which are left in existence pull in youth far away from the local area. Like it or not, that is what happened; and we can only look back on history, we cannot change it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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