TOC/G7 Related Discussion

[glory]

It depends on who DCI primarily sees as its primary future customer base.

Is it Parents and their Children in the High School and College Band programs ? Or is it the general public at large ? If its the former, then the use of " Marching Band " seems appropriate. If its the general public at large, then a new moniker would probably be more appropriate, imo...

Drum corps fans will never be the general public, which is why we need to be more welcoming to the marching band label. I think DCI actually did a great job with the "Marching Music's Major League" tagline. It connotes marching band without being specific. We need to embrace marching band as our brother (sister?) and seek our solutions in what we have in common. THAT DOES NOT HAVE TO MEAN COMMON INSTRUMENTATION. It should mean leveraging our not-insignificant community in the interest of all. In other words: Can't we all just get along?

HH

[BRASSO]

Drum corps fans will never be the general public, which is why we need to be more welcoming to the marching band label.

HH

DCI has reached out in a number of ways to the Marching Band Community over the years, particularly in the Marching Band rich state of Texas. We have lots of shows there, and it has resulted in lots of new marchers from this state now participating in DCI Corps since DCI decided to focus there. But as we have lost Corps, marchers, and fans from DCI's less focused areas of North America with this strategy, the efforts of outreach by DCI in the state of Texas has not resulted in new Drum Corps starting up there. Thats very unfortunate, and troubling. DCI can not continue to lose Corps in areas it has not focused on lately, while simultaneously not seeing any new start up Corps taking place in a state that it has poured money, resources, marketing into. It is good to witness a revitalized Crossmen doing better since relocating to San Antonio, but this is addition by subtraction, as its really not growth of a DCI Corps as the Crossmen have been in DCI since the 70's. We need to see more Corps coming out of this state. Otherwise, the pouring of money, resources, time, and marketing can hardly be deemed a success in the end for all this effort there in this State. We actually have less total number of DCI participants in DCI corps now than before this outreach began, as the number of total Corps in DCI is down.

Edited April 3, 2013 by BRASSO

[garfield]

The more accepted DCI is by the scholastic music programs (i.e. band directors), the more those directors will bring busloads of kids to shows...BITS.

More accepted by scholastic music programs? I thought scholastic programs have not only accepted drum corps but, in fact, morphed into drum corps and replaced all of those "local" corps as a training ground.

If HS programs are now drum corps training grounds, how much more accepted need we be?

Something doesn't add up...

[Slingerland]

More accepted by scholastic music programs? I thought scholastic programs have not only accepted drum corps but, in fact, morphed into drum corps and replaced all of those "local" corps as a training ground.

I'd suggest that's a misreading of the statements being made. The bands didn't actively seek to replace the local corps; the local corps just stopped having a reason to exist.

This was, in part, because of the better band programs, but more importantly, because small town drum corps makes absolutely no financial sense, or at least not enough to justify any group of parents going out and spending $200,000 in equipment and another $100-200,000 a year, when the product may not be that much better or that much different than what those same kids will be doing in band.

Bands didn't kill drum corps in the way Wal-Mart kills local retailers. In the face of an improved alternative (the HS band), the drum corps just couldn't come up with a justification for their own existence that warranted enough parents and kids willing to keep them going.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Slingerland

[BRASSO]

In the face of an improved alternative (the HS band), the drum corps just couldn't come up with a justification for their own existence that warranted enough parents and kids willing to keep them going.

The School Bands in New England had nothing to do with the demise in the number of Corps in this region. In N.E. High School Bands in the 70's typically were as small as the Drum Corps, and were no threat at all to the Drum Corps of New England. The loss of Drum Corps in New England ( where there were over 200 at its peak ) was due to the loss of sponsorhips by the Veterans Groups, as well as the Churches. Once the local Corps began to take in marchers from outside the Parish, and the Drum Corps and Veterans Groups had their falling out, it was the end for most of them as once DCI started, and the National Touring Model was implemented, these Corps could not find a suitable sponsorship for such touring. There were sufficient parents and their kids in New England to do Drum Corps. Just not the kind of Drum Corps that DCI was offering them, and at a cost with few sponsors wanting to underwrite it. The " Bands " were a total non factor regarding the loss of Drum Corps insofar as New England is concerned.

Edited April 4, 2013 by BRASSO

[MikeD]

No. I never suggested at all... anywhere on here... that a person should be allowed to do 2 musical units simultaneously. Nice try.

You said EXACTLY that...."whether its an overlap or not".

You championed just a few days ago the marchers right to leave one musical unit ( DCI Corps ) for another musical unit ( another DCI Corps ), without penalty, nor recriminations, but then today, you flip flopped on this and you now apparently Champion the right of another musical unit ( a school band ) to deny a marcher to do DCI Summer Corps if it overlaps with that Directors " Band Camp ".

No flip flop at all. I have never said a member should be in two corps at the same time. A corps member who fulfills their contract at one should be free to audition for another...but I never intimated that they should be in both at the same time as you want to allow...and in fact I agreed that there should be cutoff points to such movement. Yes, the band director has the right to set the rules for his her program...if band camp is mandatory, so be it. It doesn't deny the student the right to march in a corps...they are free not to do the marching band if the band has an attendance requirement and the student wants to choose the corps...or another activity if there were attendance conflicts that were not acceptable to the director.

Edited April 4, 2013 by MikeD

[MikeD]

here's the thing...with all of the marketing aimed at band directors, the tie ins with NEMC, etc...we're never going to win an overwhelming majority of them.

with school budgets as they are, and with many directors being very anti competition, we're only going to get so many.

There are around 25,000 HS in the US; the market is nowhere near maxed out. Sure, there will always be some directors who see MB as a distasteful chore, who think that an evening of drum corps is worse than an evening of getting a root canal.

[MikeD]

More accepted by scholastic music programs? I thought scholastic programs have not only accepted drum corps but, in fact, morphed into drum corps and replaced all of those "local" corps as a training ground.

If HS programs are now drum corps training grounds, how much more accepted need we be?

Something doesn't add up...

Getting more directors to want to bring busloads to shows is always a good thing, IMO...as well as getting them to at least not get in the way of kids trying out for a corps. There are 25,000 HS (plus) in the US, so there are lots of opportunities to expand the fan base in that arena.

It is certainly far better than it was back in my HS days.

[Stu]

No, not " some ".

As a matter of fact., not a single solitary poster has said this on this thread, Stu. I challenge you ( or anyone else for that matter ) to repost from this thread where a single poster has said this.

One of the problems it appears we have here on DCP is that some posters comment on things that were never said, nor even implied. Such sensible dialogue then becomes impossible. If we can't read and comprehend properly what is being stated then communication quickly devolves into attempts to defend things that in fact were never uttered at all. It would be like me stating that you posted here that doing Band Camp is " the greatest thing to do in the summer; far better than doing DCI Drum Corps " and telling you to defend that... something you never stated at all on here, Stu. Would you like to be put in a position to have to defend something that you never said at all ?( nor anyone else has said on here either ? )

Please see the bold; where did I write 'on this thread'? I did not write any such thing. I did write, some here on 'DCP'; and I can, if I had time to research, show where many posters on other threads have claimed that a summer with a corps provides better quality, education, etc... than summer band camps. BUT!!!!! That was not the point of my posting at all; you never addressed the actual post which dealt with the value of teaching a youth that sacrifices and choices must sometimes be made; and that they need to learn to make hard choices because most times in the real world compromising to accommodate what they want, when they want, to do everything they want will not happen.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Stu

[Stu]

You really hit the nail on the head there.

So you are stating that there have never been posts in other threads claiming that a summer with a drum corps is better than summer band camps? If you believe that, 'your' hammer has missed the nail.