TOC/G7 Related Discussion

[danielray]

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Unless they're super principled, very selective, and very religious right?

Joking. There are actually several closet attorneys on this board.

[cixelsyd]

The 1970's... so relevant to now.

The 80's ... so relevant to now.

The 90's.... so relevant to now.

The economy has changed, youth activities have changed, life has changed... and is changing dramatically. The only thing relevant to now is now and the next few years into the future.

Whatever happened even last year is irrelevant. This is the world we live in... and kids are moving along even faster, with less interest in the past.

DCP seems to be mostly about the past.

Since you are only interested in now and the immediate future, would you like to answer my questions regarding which path forward you recommend? Choices were:

- rethink the concept of "haves" and "have-nots"

- stick with "haves" and "have-nots", and focus on growing more "have-nots" before we run out

- stick with "haves" and "have-nots", but replenish the "have-not" population by revoking member status of selected "haves"

[MikeD]

Mike,

with all of the marketing sent out....how many directors even hang the stuff up for kids to see? You need real outreach, not flyers sent to directors that usually end up in file 13. I'm an administrator for TOB in my area. I cover 9 counties. Over half of the schools compete in some form, but of those that do not, it's been made clear don't waste your time marketing to us, we even throw the drum corps stuff away. When I talk to directors that do compete, heck even they throw DCI marketing away, don't read Halftime Magazine, etc. Maybe the market hasn't been maxed out, but it hasn't been worked properly for the 16 years now of super emphasis on schools.

IMO they have done a decent job, though certainly there needs to be more done. It has not been the woeful job you are painting, at least not around my area.

And still, band kids come and go, as do their parents. Which means every 4-6 years, new faces come in and hopefully replace old ones ( I see many schools band programs getting smaller because of a myriad of issues). So if you're constantly churning kids in and out, and more older fans leave for whatever reason...where's the growth? More recent alumni have not shown near the fanaticism alumni for your era through mine have. hell, I know a large majority of the people I marched with don't even follow scores online anymore.

One of the good things about the scholastic bands is that there are new kids beinf exposed to drum corps every year. Yes, few will become the fanatical type of fans that corps veterans from the past have been...the model of a corps fan is changing, by necessity.

Going after kids exclusively has not worked, and will continue to not work. The problem is.....what has DCI done to try and build the base otherwise? A smart business retains customers while they add them. Continuously shuffling folks in and out doesn't spell success......especially if you're losing older customers

Older folks constantly drift away. It was that way even in my era. DCI does what it is able to do with limited resources to retain older fans, but it just can not...and should not...do anything to jeopardize the continuing need to attract the younger new fans. BTW...there a plenty of legacy fans at shows I attend, so it is not like every legacy fan has left.

IMO without that direction attendance would be worse than it is today.

[cixelsyd]

The moniker came from Coltrin & Associates, PR/Communications firm.

So you are saying that DCI did what others suggest here, and hired a professional PR firm in pursuit of better marketing ideas than could be obtained internally. And this was already done years ago.

Those who thought DCI gave no mind to refining their marketing message will be relieved to hear this. Thank you for providing that insight.

[MikeD]

No disconnect. A correlation, if not a cause/effect, certainly exists even within historical context in that once national touring was established, and especially once the regional circuits were gone, national touring was/is 'required' to have a shot at making Finals. And due to that tour increase push the near-finalists 'had' to begin going on national tour or give up hope at ever making it to Saturday; and due to that the lower corps could not keep up with that tour pace; and due to that many lower corps either folded trying to go national or folded because they were not financially able to keep up competitively. Again, no disconnect.

Going way back to the time Slingerland is talking about, local corps would attend DCI champs just for the experience, when it was close by. They had no expectation to make finals or anything close. They were non-touring corps, as he notes, and nobody expected them to start touring.

[MikeD]

The Knights toured to California in 1981, did 34 shows in 1982, and 36 shows in 1983. Evidently, they spent a fair amount of time (and money) on the road.

Again, using your example of the Knights, who attended DCI Championships annually from 1976 through 1995 at locations all over the continent, there is obviously some degree of "national tour" involved in what they did.

You can't extrapolate the touring experience of ONE single corps to all of the corps. Lots of corps never toured beyond the occasional long weekend or maybe a week going way back.

[MikeD]

All of which is one reason why I'm not sure there is a market for much more than 18 or 20 big drum corps. There aren't that many people who know how to manage and produce drum corps on a level that people want to buy. If you're going to do it at all, you're going to have to offer a type of program and experience that is not just different, but significantly different and better than what can be gotten simply by doing your high school band program.

Even back when there were 440'ish competing corps there were only a relative handful that were considered top-level corps...maybe even fewer than 20 in any given year.

[MikeD]

So with Major League you confirm the performers are paid professional adults, yes?

What does the term Major League have to do with automatically meaning a paid professional?

Edited April 4, 2013 by MikeD

[cixelsyd]

Going way back to the time Slingerland is talking about, local corps would attend DCI champs just for the experience, when it was close by. They had no expectation to make finals or anything close. They were non-touring corps, as he notes, and nobody expected them to start touring.

You can't extrapolate the touring experience of ONE single corps to all of the corps.

Then look at the lineup for VFW Nationals in 1971, way out in Dallas.

Santa Clara Vanguard (Santa Clara, CA)

Blue Rock (Wilmington, DE)

Troopers (Casper, WY)

Argonne Rebels (Great Bend, KS)

Anaheim Kingsmen (Anaheim, CA)

27th Lancers (Revere, MA)

Garfield Cadets (Garfield, NJ)

Blue Stars (La Crosse, WI)

Boston Crusaders (Boston, MA)

Madison Scouts (Madison, WI)

Black Knights (Belleville, IL)

St. Paul Scouts (St. Paul, MN)

Stardusters (Arabi, LA)

Racine Scouts (Racine, WI)

Sky Ryders (Hutchinson, KS)

Audubon Bon Bons (Audubon, NJ)

Pembroke Imperials (Pembroke, MA)

Kewanee Black Knights (Kewanee, IL)

Oshkosh Warriors (Oshkosh, WI)

Seattle Imperials (Seattle, WA)

Colt .45 (Dubuque, IA)

Commodores (Stockton, CA)

Brookhaven Crusaders (Brookhaven, PA)

Continental Ambassadors (Wichita, KS)

Page Park Cadets (St. Louis, MO)

Memorial Lancers (St. Louis, MO)

Nee-His (Clinton, IA)

White Tornadoes (Momence, IL)

Sundowners (Eau Claire, WI)

Southern Rebels (Metairie, LA)

Bellettes (Belleville, IL)

Floridians (N. Miami, FL)

Silhouettes (Carol City, FL)

Masqueraders (New Orleans, LA)

Golden Shields (New Orleans, LA)

I think we could have expected non-local corps to attend the championship. They already were.

[Jeff Ream]

Maybe there's our disconnect; I'm talking about the era when corps were dying off by handfuls, not the recent decade or two, where the activity has been relatively stable.

When you go from over 100 corps in the early 90's to less than 50 now, I wouldnt call the recent decade or two stable