Lose the logo

[skeptic]

I'm going to call your bluff on this one. Math involved. Citations below.

Let's assume that the only events that occur at Lucas Oil are Pro and College Football (Colts and the Big Ten Championship game, 9 games) and DCI championships. Using the capacity figure from Wikipedia (62,421) and multiply that over the nine games, you obtain a total of 561,789 attendees. If you use the figures from 2012 championships, a total of 36,494 tickets were purchased for the event. If the tickets were priced the same, the DCI number would only constitute 6.1% of their revenue. However, seeing as the average ticket price for a Colts game in 2009 was $86.50 (which has since gone up) is higher than the average ticket for a given DCI championship event, that reduces the percentage of revenue even lower than 6.1%. Take into account the other revenue they obtain through BOA, State sports championships, concerts, etc., DCI does make a contribution to the revenue, but not that significant.

That being said, they shouldn't at all feel obligated to spend the money removing the logo.

Sources:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucas_Oil_Stadium

http://www.dci.org/news/view.cfm?news_id=777ac5ef-235a-4f86-896d-70392b372660

http://nfl-franchises.findthedata.org/q/17/2696/What-is-the-average-price-of-a-ticket-for-a-Indianapolis-Colts-football-game

I bet if you asked anyone involved in the administration at LOS... they wouldnt say 6.1% isnt very much. Thats revenue that otherwise wouldnt be coming in. 3 days of ticket sales to take a portion of, 3 days of people using the concessions, 3 days of people popping into the Colts souvie store (that otherwise wouldnt), plus whatever DCI pays to use the facility. Not to mention the boom for hotels and restaurants in the area. If I was running LOS... I would do what I had to do to please DCI.

There could be an unknown factor in all of this too so we cant assume LOS simply doesnt want to change out the logo.

[Rannec]

I bet if you asked anyone involved in the administration at LOS... they wouldnt say 6.1% isnt very much. Thats revenue that otherwise wouldnt be coming in. 3 days of ticket sales to take a portion of, 3 days of people using the concessions, 3 days of people popping into the Colts souvie store (that otherwise wouldnt), plus whatever DCI pays to use the facility. Not to mention the boom for hotels and restaurants in the area. If I was running LOS... I would do what I had to do to please DCI.

There could be an unknown factor in all of this too so we cant assume LOS simply doesnt want to change out the logo.

Remember, 6.1% is only when accounting for DCI and football being the only revenues, and assuming tickets are sold at the same price, which they aren't. When other events are taken into account, I imagine DCI only contributes ~1% of the revenue, at most.

While that is still income and a venue should do what they can to take care of the needs of the event, regardless of importance of the event, they don't really have a reason to go out of their way to remove the logo.

I doubt DCI's executives really care if it is there or not. Maybe if they were strongly opinionated about it, it might get removed, but they have more important things to worry about.

[13strokeroll]

In no way are events like DCI insignificant to a stadium's revenues; in fact they are critical. In most cases the stadium would never have been justified without the anticipated "other events" revenues, because there just aren't that many home games in a year (The Colts had 8 last year according to NFL.com). The players have to heal! I wouldn't be surprised if DCI were are high-single-digit percentage of their revenues. And since it also pursues BOA and Indiana state marching band competitions, I'm guessing they actively seek to make the place right for the customer.

In general venues get a large share (often the lion's share) of the ticket price, and so they generally want to appease the customer as much as possible. Your scenario would be correct if the advertising value of the logo in events like ours were factored into the economics of the stadium (for example, a mandatory part of the contract), but in fact I get the sense that the venues do whatever they can to present the field in the manner the customer wants.

As far as the look goes, at the end of the day drum corps shows are an art form, and I can't imagine the show designers want a huge sports logo in the middle of the field any more than Broadway producers would want an ad placed above the stage.

Except, as you previously pointed out, at the TRUE end of the day, DCI is a business whose product is based on an artform. That said, the cobranding with a billion-dollar franchise does infinitely more to elevate DCI's mainstream cache.

[whitedawn]

Some bands have a green tarp that they take with them to BOA to cover the logo.

[HockeyDad]

I'm going to call your bluff on this one. Math involved. Citations below.

Let's assume that the only events that occur at Lucas Oil are Pro and College Football (Colts and the Big Ten Championship game, 9 games) and DCI championships. Using the capacity figure from Wikipedia (62,421) and multiply that over the nine games, you obtain a total of 561,789 attendees. If you use the figures from 2012 championships, a total of 36,494 tickets were purchased for the event. If the tickets were priced the same, the DCI number would only constitute 6.1% of their revenue. However, seeing as the average ticket price for a Colts game in 2009 was $86.50 (which has since gone up) is higher than the average ticket for a given DCI championship event, that reduces the percentage of revenue even lower than 6.1%. Take into account the other revenue they obtain through BOA, State sports championships, concerts, etc., DCI does make a contribution to the revenue, but not that significant.

That being said, they shouldn't at all feel obligated to spend the money removing the logo.

Sources:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucas_Oil_Stadium

http://www.dci.org/news/view.cfm?news_id=777ac5ef-235a-4f86-896d-70392b372660

http://nfl-franchises.findthedata.org/q/17/2696/What-is-the-average-price-of-a-ticket-for-a-Indianapolis-Colts-football-game

You forget the pre-season games. I'll have to give you a minus 1 point for that.

So, that makes 10 games plus the B1G championship, for a total of 11.

DCI is a small fish in a big pond. A really, really, really geeky small fish. It would be the small fish that gets picked on by the bigger fishes, yet so wants to be relevant. So much so that it will change its rules constantly, even to the point of jettisoning its core identity, in that quest for relevance. And in the process, lose much of its support base.

[Stu]

In no way are events like DCI insignificant to a stadium's revenues; in fact they are critical. In most cases the stadium would never have been justified without the anticipated "other events" revenues, because there just aren't that many home games in a year (The Colts had 8 last year according to NFL.com). The players have to heal! I wouldn't be surprised if DCI were are high-single-digit percentage of their revenues. And since it also pursues BOA and Indiana state marching band competitions, I'm guessing they actively seek to make the place right for the customer.

In general venues get a large share (often the lion's share) of the ticket price, and so they generally want to appease the customer as much as possible. Your scenario would be correct if the advertising value of the logo in events like ours were factored into the economics of the stadium (for example, a mandatory part of the contract), but in fact I get the sense that the venues do whatever they can to present the field in the manner the customer wants.

As far as the look goes, at the end of the day drum corps shows are an art form, and I can't imagine the show designers want a huge sports logo in the middle of the field any more than Broadway producers would want an ad placed above the stage.

1. At the end of the day it is not about 'art' but about 'bottom line' and nothing more; it is about expenditures for DCI and revenue for the Oil Can. I am positive that DCI could, if they so chose, have the logo removed then replaced if DCI is willing to fork over the cash. So, this is actually a business cost analysis decision not an artistic decision.

2. The corporation of Lucas Oil is a 'significant' revenue source, they bought the naming rights. The Colts are a 'significant' revenue source, the $720,000,000 stadium was built for them. Is the DCI event a small revenue source for the owner(s) of the Oil can when leasing the stadium? Yes; Is DCI a 'significant' revenue source? No! Therefore, by definition, DCI is an 'insignificant' revenue source for the owner(s) of the Oil Can. Of course the owner(s) certainly do count on a collected group of combined insignificant revenue sources outside of the Colts games; but DCI is still just one of the collected insignificant sources. It is only when DCI is combined with other insignificant revenue sources that it makes a real impact on the revenue percentage for the owners(s) of the Oil Can.

3. Where DCI could be considered as having a significant impact is on the bottom line of Motels and Restaurants in and around the Indianapolis area. I am sure that they like having DCI roll into town; and that in turn probably does reflect back onto the Oil Can wanting to lease the stadium to both DCI and BOA.

4. The logo itself is not hard to overlook. I personally have been able to ignore it; and until this tread popped up I have never really thought a football logo on the field was an issue, at any stadium, let alone the Oil Can. Why? Because I accept the fact that the $720,000,000 stadium was built for the Colts not built for a small event called DCI, which is merely leased by one of the many (at least to to the owners of the stadium) combined insignificant sources of revenue for the Oil Can.

5. Lastly, in reality we are just a niche of a niche; and therefore we need to get over ourselves if we think we are as significant as the NFL Indianapolis Colts. We are a marching event for goodness sake; and one which just leases the Lucas Oil Indianapolis Colts Professional NFL Football Stadium; and therefore we should fully expect the NFL Team Logo to be on the NFL Team's Field of Play.

[Rannec]

You forget the pre-season games. I'll have to give you a minus 1 point for that.

So, that makes 10 games plus the B1G championship, for a total of 11.

DCI is a small fish in a big pond. A really, really, really geeky small fish. It would be the small fish that gets picked on by the bigger fishes, yet so wants to be relevant. So much so that it will change its rules constantly, even to the point of jettisoning its core identity, in that quest for relevance. And in the process, lose much of its support base.

Nice catch :) And your fish metaphor is quite true.

[Pete Freedman]

Nice catch :) And your fish metaphor is quite true.

Wow. Too many responses to quote all of you. Anyway, nice math job folks. Here's my response:

1. As someone pointed out, DCI is actually three events (granted only half the stadium).

2. BOA and other band events count in my favor, since - as in the picture above - there is overwhelming evidence that bands sometimes want it removed.

3. There is evidence earlier in this very thread that the companies involved go to the effort to create systems to allow the logo to be removable.

4. It was indeed removed one year at DCI at this stadium, and only isn't removed if there is a game the next day and there isn't time. (According to my memory of posts on this thread :-)

Also, some of you are arguing a different question, whether the venue should feel obligated to remove it. Not at all. My only point is that it is indeed in their interest to work with their non-football customers in this regard if the finances justify. I am merely arguing against the oh-so-common "DCI is insignificant" claim.

Also, some of you are saying DCI has bigger fish to fry than insist on the logos removal. Of course they do. These are straw man arguments. Nobody is insisting, and nobody is obligated. It's just a matter of the stadium's perceived risk of losing the event to a venue that can remove their logo. The venues are in very stiff competition with each other. And any business that doesn't care about even 1% of revenues is a business that will lose the other 99%.

Don't we love to argue!

[Lead]

As far as I know (from the standpoint of being a band director in the state of Indiana), there are a total of 10 'Marching Band Days' per year in Lucas Oil Stadium. They are:

DCI Prelims

DCI Semi Finals

DCI Finals

ISSMA State Finals (all one day)

BOA Indy Super Regional Day 1

BOA Indy Super Regional Day 2

BOA/Indy Public Schools Marching Tournament

BOA Grand National Prelims Day 1

BOA Grand National Prelims Day 2

BOA Semi Finals/BOA Finals

A couple of other answers to questions.

1 - the 'green' helmet that was on the field for 2011 Finals was a "special" green helmet used only for 2011 that was created for use that season because Indianapolis hosted the Super Bowl for that season. It was a green inlay that was painted blue, white, and gray for Colts games, and was also able to be cleaned and then painted with the Super Bowl logos for that year. The endzone pieces of turf were actually the same (all green turf) :) I was in Lucas Oil, on the turf on the day before Quarterfinals. The picture earlier in the thread of the turf and the different turf 'consistencies' were mine (maybe Skeptic posted it?). My honest guess is that, knowing how the NFL Memorabilia department works, that helmet was probably cut up into little pieces and sold as Super Bowl souvenirs. I'm just speculating, but I doubt it even exists (not that they couldn't buy a new one...).

2 - the 'normal' helmet (and endzone pieces) for Colts games are NOT GREEN. They are actually white/blue/gray/red strands of artificial turf. Again, this is experience from having been on the turf many, many times for both events with DCI, my marching band at school, and from doing Colts Season Ticket holder events (yeah, I'm that guy as well :) ). The 2011 'look' of the Colts field was an anomaly. If you look for pictures from that season, you may be able to notice that the field had a 'washed-out' look. That's because the paint was not as vibrantly colored as the turf that was actually produced in that color.

Just a couple of FYIs :)

Edited April 14, 2013 by Lead

[Stu]

Wow. Too many responses to quote all of you. Anyway, nice math job folks. Here's my response:

1. As someone pointed out, DCI is actually three events (granted only half the stadium).

2. BOA and other band events count in my favor, since - as in the picture above - there is overwhelming evidence that bands sometimes want it removed.

3. There is evidence earlier in this very thread that the companies involved go to the effort to create systems to allow the logo to be removable.

4. It was indeed removed one year at DCI at this stadium, and only isn't removed if there is a game the next day and there isn't time. (According to my memory of posts on this thread :-)

Also, some of you are arguing a different question, whether the venue should feel obligated to remove it. Not at all. My only point is that it is indeed in their interest to work with their non-football customers in this regard if the finances justify. I am merely arguing against the oh-so-common "DCI is insignificant" claim.

Also, some of you are saying DCI has bigger fish to fry than insist on the logos removal. Of course they do. These are straw man arguments. Nobody is insisting, and nobody is obligated. It's just a matter of the stadium's perceived risk of losing the event to a venue that can remove their logo. The venues are in very stiff competition with each other. And any business that doesn't care about even 1% of revenues is a business that will lose the other 99%.

Don't we love to argue!

> ... it is indeed in their interest to work with their non-football customers in this regard if the finances justify.

"If finances justify"... that is the 'only' issue; again the 'only' one. The stadium will remove/replace the logo if DCI is willing/able to fork over the cost. It is a business decision on both parties plain and simple. Leasing a stadium and contracting requests, like the logo situation, is a pay as you go deal. If DCI pays for the logo removal/replacement DCI gets the logo removal/replacement. For me, it is not worth the extra cost because, for me, I see DCI as a merely contracting a three-day lease to use the house of the Colts; a house in which the Colts, not DCI, is what is really significant.

> ... I am merely arguing against the oh-so-common "DCI is insignificant" claim.

Come on; please see the activity in relationship to the rest of the world of entertainment and sports. DCI actually is on the 'insignificant' end of that spectrum. Want proof? As pointed out in another thread, even Punkin Chunkin has more viewership interest than DCI.