Could a High School drum corps be competitive?

[MisterA]

In the past, there have been discussions about how competitive a marching band at the BOA championship level could be in the DCI circuit. Obviously there are several factors that would keep them from competing. But if you overlooked woodwinds, there are several top tier bands that could possibly be competing for a top 17 spot.

So if a high school decided to compete as a corps, eliminating woodwinds and anything else that would prevent them from being judged in DCI, how do you think a corps like that could do. Seeing some of the bands from Texas, Indiana, and others like Tarpon Springs, where they are doing shows that sometimes resemble Cadets shows(or the other way around) makes me wonder if they could be competing for a top 12 spot. Either using a high school, or having a city wide corps using only kids from a large town, and maybe having a 30 mile radius, like was done in the majority in the 70s.

For example, if you used only kids from say Houston, or Dallas, you would have a lot of amazingly talented kids. If you had a great staff, and were able to rehearse more frequently during the winter months since all kids are local, it seems like you could have a real advantage over some of the other corps who have members traveling from all over the country, not to mention other countries.

I remember in the past, there have been corps with staff members that have brought 15-30 kids into the corps with them. I know this happened more frequently with DII/III corps, but if you look at some of the performances of these corps in the 80s and 90s, they were very good. And some of the marching bands in the BOA circuit put on some pretty impressive shows. If you took some of the larger bands, dropped woodwinds, and took the best 120-150 students, or take students from one of dozens of high schools in some of the larger cities, and were able to have full rehearsals, even during the school year, it just seems like they would stand a high chance of breaking into the top 12 pretty quickly.

[actucker]

In the past, there have been discussions about how competitive a marching band at the BOA championship level could be in the DCI circuit. Obviously there are several factors that would keep them from competing. But if you overlooked woodwinds, there are several top tier bands that could possibly be competing for a top 17 spot.

So if a high school decided to compete as a corps, eliminating woodwinds and anything else that would prevent them from being judged in DCI, how do you think a corps like that could do. Seeing some of the bands from Texas, Indiana, and others like Tarpon Springs, where they are doing shows that sometimes resemble Cadets shows(or the other way around) makes me wonder if they could be competing for a top 12 spot. Either using a high school, or having a city wide corps using only kids from a large town, and maybe having a 30 mile radius, like was done in the majority in the 70s.

For example, if you used only kids from say Houston, or Dallas, you would have a lot of amazingly talented kids. If you had a great staff, and were able to rehearse more frequently during the winter months since all kids are local, it seems like you could have a real advantage over some of the other corps who have members traveling from all over the country, not to mention other countries.

I remember in the past, there have been corps with staff members that have brought 15-30 kids into the corps with them. I know this happened more frequently with DII/III corps, but if you look at some of the performances of these corps in the 80s and 90s, they were very good. And some of the marching bands in the BOA circuit put on some pretty impressive shows. If you took some of the larger bands, dropped woodwinds, and took the best 120-150 students, or take students from one of dozens of high schools in some of the larger cities, and were able to have full rehearsals, even during the school year, it just seems like they would stand a high chance of breaking into the top 12 pretty quickly.

The idea that a group from BOA finals could compete with world class drum corps is absurd. Are upper level BOA bands fantastic? Absolutely. But the fact is, you simply can't compete with a group that rehearses 12 hours a day for an entire summer, no matter how good your staff is, or how talented your kids are. The fact that these corps draw from all over the country is exactly why its absurd. They get their choice of kids to fill the ensemble. They're already starting with an ensemble that has a higher level of average member than a high school program who has to take whatever their feeders give them. Sure, there are groups that have gigantic band programs, and pare it down for the competitive band, but that's not the same as having your pick from hundreds upon hundreds.

This conversation is similar to saying that a college or high school basketball team at the top of its game could take on the lower NBA teams. No. No they couldn't, because even the worst player on that NBA team is still a player that was good enough to get drafted into the NBA. Even the best college teams don't have an entire roster of kids who could make an NBA roster. The same can be said for the top BOA marching bands and DCI. Sure, there are a ton of those kids who go on and march DCI, but even if they had the talent, there isn't a single BOA band that has an entire roster of kids who would want to put the work in that a drum corps does for an entire summer.

This is not meant at all to slam BOA or what those bands accomplish. I teach a band that competes in BOA events, and go to grand nationals every chance I get. But there simply isn't a replacement for the talent pool, drive and rehearsal schedule associated with World Class drum corps.

[BRASSO]

In the past, there have been discussions about how competitive a marching band at the BOA championship level could be in the DCI circuit. Obviously there are several factors that would keep them from competing. But if you overlooked woodwinds, there are several top tier bands that could possibly be competing for a top 17 spot.

So if a high school decided to compete as a corps, eliminating woodwinds and anything else that would prevent them from being judged in DCI, how do you think a corps like that could do. Seeing some of the bands from Texas, Indiana, and others like Tarpon Springs, where they are doing shows that sometimes resemble Cadets shows(or the other way around) makes me wonder if they could be competing for a top 12 spot. Either using a high school, or having a city wide corps using only kids from a large town, and maybe having a 30 mile radius, like was done in the majority in the 70s.

For example, if you used only kids from say Houston, or Dallas, you would have a lot of amazingly talented kids. If you had a great staff, and were able to rehearse more frequently during the winter months since all kids are local, it seems like you could have a real advantage over some of the other corps who have members traveling from all over the country, not to mention other countries.

I remember in the past, there have been corps with staff members that have brought 15-30 kids into the corps with them. I know this happened more frequently with DII/III corps, but if you look at some of the performances of these corps in the 80s and 90s, they were very good. And some of the marching bands in the BOA circuit put on some pretty impressive shows. If you took some of the larger bands, dropped woodwinds, and took the best 120-150 students, or take students from one of dozens of high schools in some of the larger cities, and were able to have full rehearsals, even during the school year, it just seems like they would stand a high chance of breaking into the top 12 pretty quickly.

The biggest problem I see with a H. S. Drum Corps proposal in Texas ( or anywhere for that matter ) would be someone going to a local school board and asking them for upwards of a 2 million dollars to start up a DCI competing all summer long, national touring Drum Corps comprised of 150 students, staff, busses, instruments, unis,kitchen truck, equipment trucks, gas, housing, etc etc then upwards of a million dollars per year to keep it up and running. My guess, after you gave that proposal at a school board meeting, they would call the police to provide you the proper security you'd most likely need as you left the building to go to your car parked outside in the parking lot.

Edited May 26, 2013 by BRASSO

[garfield]

Even presuming the school board would promote the idea, and that you could hold over HS kids to march in the summer, they still couldn't compete. What drum corps has that HS doesn't is college-age members. The jump in stamina, responsibility, drive, and desire - not to mention playing quality - from a HS senior to a college sophomore is significant and gives the drum corps the edge over even the best HS groups.

I've seen my share of HS bands and I've yet to see one that I would consider remotely close to BDB, Oregon Crusaders, or Surf.

While I suspect that Tarpon Springs could contend in the Open Class, the question is: Why would they? That group doesn't have the earning power or status prompt an entire HS music program to field a group in the summer. Too bad, but true enough.

I'm probably not usual, but I'll sit through an OC drum corps show for hours longer than I'll sit through a HS band competition. In my eye, it's not even a close comparison.

Edited May 26, 2013 by garfield

[DrumManTx]

In a magical land that it could happen in and everything was approved, I don't see why a group of really good high school students couldn't do pretty well on the same kind of schedule as a drum corps with a good staff. A high school on a fall schedule? No chance. But on a drum corps type schedule I don't see why not.

[SFZFAN]

There are a lot of great high school drumlines and a lot of good bands but they would have a hard time eliminating woodwinds. Even if they could the answer is no.

Edited May 26, 2013 by SFZFAN

[13strokeroll]

Coming from a BOA GN semis band, it would be a bit of a stretch. DC simply moved at an altogether faster pace, even in the very few moments when the drill was on the same level. Band had rest time built into the drill, often for nembers as much as 4 years younger. DC does not. This was in a 10-15 level corps, mind you.

[MisterA]

I understand how some people don't feel that marching bands can compete with drum corps. But there wouldn't be an issue of eliminating woodwinds, because through the audition process, you would be auditioning only brass, percussion, and colorguard. Also they would be practicing a full schedule just like any other corps once the summer began, and would have more regularly scheduled rehearsals during the fall and winter months. And just for arguments sake, let's say that they won the $2 million dollar Chase Bank award. So they don't have to go to the school board for financing.

Granted it would still be all high school kids, but when you get to the lower part of the top 12 corps, there are usually more high school kids in the lower placing corps than in the top placing corps. And if you were doing a city drum corps, for example maybe in Houston, you could easily have several thousand high school band kids auditioning. Back in the 70s, there were quite a few even top tier corps that I would guess had a majority of high school students more than college students. In fact I am almost sure there were members of corps in the top 12 that were as young as 12 or 13. And while times have changed since then, and the average age of corps members is probably a lot higher, especially in the top 6 corps, age isn't always the number one factor. Talent and training can be just as important. It almost seems like this corps may have an early season advantage, especially if they were able to have a full show on the field shortly after move ins. Especially if they were in a warmer climate, like California or Texas.

By chance does anyone know the ration of high school to college kids in any of the corps? Especially corps like Vanguard Cadets or Blue Devils B? These corps are spectacular, and I know the average age is much less than their counterparts BD and SCV.

[BRASSO]

I understand how some people don't feel that marching bands can compete with drum corps. But there wouldn't be an issue of eliminating woodwinds, because through the audition process, you would be auditioning only brass, percussion, and colorguard. Also they would be practicing a full schedule just like any other corps once the summer began, and would have more regularly scheduled rehearsals during the fall and winter months. And just for arguments sake, let's say that they won the $2 million dollar Chase Bank award. So they don't have to go to the school board for financing.

Granted it would still be all high school kids, but when you get to the lower part of the top 12 corps, there are usually more high school kids in the lower placing corps than in the top placing corps. And if you were doing a city drum corps, for example maybe in Houston, you could easily have several thousand high school band kids auditioning. Back in the 70s, there were quite a few even top tier corps that I would guess had a majority of high school students more than college students. In fact I am almost sure there were members of corps in the top 12 that were as young as 12 or 13. And while times have changed since then, and the average age of corps members is probably a lot higher, especially in the top 6 corps, age isn't always the number one factor. Talent and training can be just as important. It almost seems like this corps may have an early season advantage, especially if they were able to have a full show on the field shortly after move ins. Especially if they were in a warmer climate, like California or Texas.

By chance does anyone know the ration of high school to college kids in any of the corps? Especially corps like Vanguard Cadets or Blue Devils B? These corps are spectacular, and I know the average age is much less than their counterparts BD and SCV.

A much more realistic proposal would be for High Schools to develop Drum Corps instead of Marching Bands and compete in the Fall High School State/ Regional High School Marching Circuits.

This isn't even a novel idea either. Its been done. The Northport Florida High School ( between Sarasota and Ft. Myers ) has a High School Drum & Bugle Corps and they compete in the Florida High School Marching Band circuit in the Fall ( or they used to anyway )

This is the Northport, Fl H.S. Drum & Bugle Corps. They're small. But most Drum Corps start out small in new regions.

Edited May 27, 2013 by BRASSO

[IllianaLancerContra]

In theory, Yes.

In practice, Highly Unlikely.