It's a Blue Devils world...

[flammaster]

I think that the main stream music scene is a lot of why people just don't get into the more modern stuff. They have been systematically dumbed down to only accept 4/4 in major chords and simple catchy tunes!

Without deviation from the norm progress is not possible.

[Plan9]

An old criticism of BD's drill design since 08 is that it is scattered, all over the field and therefore not in unison, perhaps wild with lots of room for error and, most certainly, not easily judged. Having watched many BD rehearsals, I was fascinated how much the techs are on top of the slightest out of sync movement....they know exactly where every person should be every second. During practices you constantly see MM's dropping for pushups on their own following a set (perhaps not a BD specific thing), but it reflects how knowledgeable each person, from designer, to tech, to MM are invested in perfection. The result is a complex field design accompanied by complex music that requires a more focused and concentrated eye and ear to observe. This is NOT to say that you need to study the theme or read history or be more evolved in some way to "get it". The audience was capable of listening to "Rite of Spring" 100 years ago and seeing the musical and visual pictures that Stavinsky and Nijinsky were portraying.....they just needed to open themselves to it....relax and enjoy the show. But instead they rejected the masterpiece out of desire to fulfill their expectation for yesterday, for "Firebird", for "Petruska"......for "Phenomenon of Cool".

This second part of the criticism may be valid, but my guess is that the judges (up high in the stands and on the field) are aware of this and take special care to insure they are spot-on with formations (either as a group, in smaller sets or even individuals). In a way, just as BD has stepped up their visual game, so have the judges had to step up their skills of observation.

Historically speaking, IMO, my guess is that most corps designers initially viewed what BD was doing as "one off" and that they would return to the more traditional BD (that so many on these boards pine for)......but they haven't looked back (literally)! Some would suggest that only BD can pull these designs off.....Crown has proved that to be wrong. From the look of Cadets show this year, this will be a classic stand-off between old school, hardcore drumcorps (done like only the Cadets can do) and the "new wave"...but this time BD is not alone "out there".

The OP has described BD's new design paradigm very well and how it is moving the activity.... it was a risk for sure....but it has turned out to be not so absurd after all.

[BRASSO]

Good point. In fact, since first breaking into the top 3 in 1975, BD has placed lower than 3rd only 7 times. 6 of those 7 were from 1987 to 1993 (excluding the 3rd place finish in 1988). The lowest placement was 5th in 1991.

Yes, and the BD show designers have been pretty much the same during much of this time frame, as well as the judges that have been judging BD in competition with the others has being pretty much been the same during much of this timeframe too. BD has figured out what these judges like ( many are the same age as them ) and they have designed shows, and executed the heck out of these shows, that has had a lasting effect each year with these judges that they've known for, in some cases, for approx. 40 years. Its a formula that clearly has worked for BD, and when we think of championships won, and placements received when not winning, BD is simply head and shoulders above all the rest in terms of their collective placement record. Thats just an undeniable fact.

Edited June 26, 2013 by BRASSO

[skevinp]

I think that the main stream music scene is a lot of why people just don't get into the more modern stuff. They have been systematically dumbed down to only accept 4/4 in major chords and simple catchy tunes!

Without deviation from the norm progress is not possible.

Phantom is consistently well liked and I have never thought of their music as simple or dumbed down.

[whitedawn]

Having watched many BD rehearsals, I was fascinated how much the techs are on top of the slightest out of sync movement....they know exactly where every person should be every second. During practices you constantly see MM's dropping for pushups on their own following a set (perhaps not a BD specific thing), but it reflects how knowledgeable each person, from designer, to tech, to MM are invested in perfection. The result is a complex field design accompanied by complex music that requires a more focused and concentrated eye and ear to observe.

You just described literally every drum corps.

Edited June 26, 2013 by whitedawn

[c.l.]

Some things never change. There has been a disconnect for years between what national audiences favorites are and the favorites of the judges. Some of the judges that are judging DCI Corps this summer were judging Corps before DCI even began in 1972. They have been judging before Disco and bellbottoms were the rage, and before Dave Mathhews, Lebron James, Tom Brady, David Ortiz, C.C. Sabathia were even born. We have DCI judges that have pushed way past 60, and are pushing 70.

How come so many tell us on here they crave " change " , but are somehow ok with DCI judges that 1st got their judging credentials pretty close to half a century ago ? Is the talent pool in DCI for judging so small these days that we need to bring back out of school retirement, retirees to judge these World Class Corps ? These retirees are great people, great judges, but com'on... its time for new blood in the judging ranks and while we're at it, younger blood to design more of these upper level World Class Division shows too in my opinion.

That sounds similar to the AMPAS, who people do complain about every year after Oscar time as being old, white, and out of touch with today's audiences.

[skevinp]

"Don't like it? Figure out what's next."...sums it up perfectly! Innovation is rewarded.

How does one distinguish innovation from 'different for the sake of being different'?

[MikeD]

Some things never change. There has been a disconnect for years between what national audiences favorites are and the favorites of the judges.

Well, 'disconnect' makes it seem as if it is a problem, and I just don't see it that way. The criteria used by judges in creating a score, or were used by judges in marking a tick, were by nature narrowly defined and technical in the performance areas. In Effect there are also many criteria to be considered, so the one 'audience involvement' factor will not play a role any larger than any of the other things being considered. that is just one of many items on the list to consider in creating an effect score.

Some of the judges that are judging DCI Corps this summer were judging Corps before DCI even began in 1972. They have been judging before Disco and bellbottoms were the rage, and before Dave Mathhews, Lebron James, Tom Brady, David Ortiz, C.C. Sabathia were even born. We have DCI judges that have pushed way past 60, and are pushing 70.

How come so many tell us on here they crave " change " , but are somehow ok with DCI judges that 1st got their judging credentials pretty close to half a century ago ? Is the talent pool in DCI for judging so small these days that we need to bring back out of school retirement, retirees to judge these World Class Corps ? These retirees are great people, great judges, but com'on... its time for new blood in the judging ranks and while we're at it, younger blood to design more of these upper level World Class Division shows too in my opinion.

Well, I don't blame those judging. At least they are willing to put themselves out there. I don't know if there is a line of new folks waiting to judge DCI...who are qualified to do so. My guess is no, but that is just a guess. IMO it would be nice to see a mix of experience.

[flammaster]

Phantom is consistently well liked and I have never thought of their music as simple or dumbed down.

Did I say anything about Phantom? NO I did not! I'm talking about the music business and main stream society in general. Have you ever heard Varese on the radio? or even Zappa for that matter? American's have a very narrow view of what is out there because they are not exposed to other things. The "main stream" doesn't want that. They want people who they can sell basketball shoes and deodorant to. Not informed citizens.

There are a pretty wide variety of shows this season. Pick the ones you like.

I'm not saying you have to like stuff that is "out there" but if exposed to enough of it with an OPEN mind you could at least tell if it's good "out there" stuff or bad.

[MikeD]

How does one distinguish innovation from 'different for the sake of being different'?

If I like it, it is 'Innovation'.

If I do not like it, it is 'different for the sake of being different'.

Or at least that is how it reads here in DCP-land.

:smile:/>