Hostrauser's Incredibly Unpopular DCI Quarterfinals Opinions

[George Dixon]

I really like SCV but I think it is no where near the depth of the 3 above them and the judging community is being very generous with some of the numbers they are awarding. If BD, CC or Cadets did a 1990's show like this with props, they would get obliterated in GE for doing stuff that has been done many times already.

I don't mind the 1990s "style" (at all) but the show is *IMO* getting over scored. Other than the drum line.

[George Dixon]

Possibly this is because the Bluecoats *aren't* getting scored high? :rolleyes:/> If Bluecoats were leading by as much as BD was in 2009, you can be sure people would be #####ing about them sitting on the stands.

Hahahaha!

Amen to THAT.

[skywhopper]

Weird. I thought I had seen a comment or two about this over the summer, but I can't find them now. It certainly occurred to me that Bluecoats were doing what some people criticized Blue Devils for in 2009, but BD's chairs never bothered me. I will agree with you that people often criticize BD for elements, liked amplified brass solos, for which other corps are given a pass (that would be a case where I dislike it regardless of who's doing it), but not always

The most successful corps are going to attract the most complaints. How many people have griped about Mandarins' narration or Oregon's singing? Very very few. How many have griped about Crown's? Plenty. Likewise, BD, the most successful drum corps in DCI history and the favorite to win for much of this year prior is going to get a lot more complaints about the annoying things it does than Bluecoats or Blue Knights or Blue Saints.

I think what's really happening is that, apart from those people who just don't want BD to win--and there are some people like that, though not as many as you sometimes appear to believe--BD's shows are less interesting for many people, but those people have a hard time explaining "dull", so they pick on other aspects.

This is definitely true. Most of the things people complain about are just rationalizations their minds latch onto to explain the lack of interest or dislike a show generates in the mind. Same for praise. If you love a corps' performance for whatever reason you're going to find lots of reasons to rationally explain it, but the truth is that the like and dislike response is going on in a different area of your brain and there's not necessarily an explanation. Certainly not an objective one.

[ContraFart]

I'm not really sure you even understand what demanding is. You've posted for a long time about how easy you believe BD's drill to be. I think you are only thinking in terms of tempo or step size (something Devils have had in abundance, particularly the last few years). Whiplash drill isn't what it's all about. Heck, a lot of high-speed whiplash drill is fairly easy, or at best only physically demanding.

The Blue Devils (and Crown to some extent, with different responsibilities) are putting excruciating physical AND mental demands on the performers. They also do it in terms of simultaneous responsibilities, something you rarely see from whiplash drill corps. The folks that took pot-shots at the chairs, mirrors, and poles really have no idea how zero-tolerance that visual style is, not to mention exhausting physically and mentally. Consider as well the challenge of marching closed geometric forms with *multiple* points of exposure and it gets even harder.

I wish Devils would have a fantasy baseball type camp where we could send the folks that just don't understand...they'd learn really quick how truly difficult that type of visual program truly is.

The same comparison can be made between BD and Crowns brass book as it can the visual book. BDs brass book is not technical, but it takes a more cerebral player to understand some of the dissonance concepts and have the music make sense. However the level of performer in the top 3 or 4 corps I believe is very close in maturity and skill so I ask which do you reward more, conceptual difficulty or technical difficulty? IF you ask me its much easier to clean conceptual difficulty than it is to clean technical difficulty. Especially when the core element of the visual design (the drill) is significantly easier than the other top tier corps.

Now let me clarify my statement by saying I do not think any corps can perform BDs show at the level the BD, the difficulty of the show is still at a top tier level and there is a big gap between the top tier and the next group of corps.....however I believe they are on the bottom of that top tier as far as overall difficulty goes.

[Plan9]

Weird. I thought I had seen a comment or two about this over the summer, but I can't find them now. It certainly occurred to me that Bluecoats were doing what some people criticized Blue Devils for in 2009, but BD's chairs never bothered me. I will agree with you that people often criticize BD for elements, liked amplified brass solos, for which other corps are given a pass (that would be a case where I dislike it regardless of who's doing it), but not always: there's a whole poll right now about whether Crown's vocals are good or not, just as the prerecorded vocals in BD's show last year were attacked (here Crown comes out on top for me, because in drum corps, live is always preferable to sampled: and yes, I know that some of Crown's vocals are pre-recoreded).

I think what's really happening is that, apart from those people who just don't want BD to win--and there are some people like that, though not as many as you sometimes appear to believe--BD's shows are less interesting for many people, but those people have a hard time explaining "dull", so they pick on other aspects. For me, BD's show is somewhat like a novel without a plot, or an experimental film. I don't mean an art film of the type that gets nominated for an Oscar but sells no tickets: No Country for Old Men as opposed to Transformers, to use 2007 as a sample year. I mean a film of the type that never even gets on the Academy's radar, and only shows at the festivals or cinemetheques for specialized connoisseurs, often foreign, but no more popular in its own country than here: Tsai Ming-liang's Goodbye, Dragon Inn for instance, which Wikipedia describes as follows:

All the reviews I've read of that movie are positive and some are glowing (Time Out New York: "A must-see art house masterpiece!"), but naturally it did very little business! A further reason why might be clear from this review, which argues for the value of that movie, but nonetheless allows that:

"Tsai's film is not free of longueurs, but like much modern work in almost every field, these stretches are deliberate assaults on conventional expectation. Certainly there can come a point where the longueur in such a work simply smothers the artist's intent..."

Would it be fair to say that Blue Devils make "deliberate assaults on conventional expectation"? And if so, is it any surprise that the assaulted parties fight back?

NIce commentary. Refreshing.

I really am not myopic about ABBD, I mention it mostly because it exists, but sometimes there are posts that simply make no other sense but that. Some of our beloved Dinos are irked by BD's stuff recently and they pull it apart like a new fish you've never eaten before.....staring at it ....poking at it.....and often end up just laying your fork down.

Your last comment really is insightful and more or less true.....the "less" part is that I don't believe the BD design team does it as stick in the eye of convention, but because they find not limits to creativity and are masters of the sheets...being able to fold in "different" and maintain the level of performance necessary to be competitive. I say, let them have at it.....we need different.

[perc2100]

TROUBLING TREND: There were many DCI corps this year that had HALF of a great show. It seems like the show designers came up with this really awesome idea, and front-loaded the show so that the first 5-6 minutes were just incredible and amazing. But then we got to the point of development and resolution and the inspiration fairy fluttered away while giving them a two-fisted "rigid digit" salute. Too many corps followed up an impressive first half of a show with a fairly uninspired, drum corps-by-the-numbers second half, as if they either (a) didn't know how to wrap the show up, or (b) were just going down the Standard DCI Checklist for What Scores Well and checking off boxes. The G7 corps were not immune from this plague, either. I don't want to name names, but if you think of the University of Virginia, West Point, and old Leroy Anderson pops pieces you might figure it out.

I think this is a similar problem with many WGI (particularly WGI percussion) units. Not the top WGI units, but many of the middle and lower tiered groups (as in mid-level finalists and non-finalists: not saying it's a problem that is not apparent in just WC as it is in all classifications). It's like designers have a great idea and know how they want to set up the show, but don't really know how to stretch that idea into a cohesive presentation. I agree that as DCI design trends are seemingly mirroring WGI, it also seems the "I'm having problems developing an effective and cohesive beginning/middle/end of a program" trend is also seeping through

[N.E. Brigand]

Some of our beloved Dinos are irked by BD's stuff recently and they pull it apart like a new fish you've never eaten before... staring at it.... poking at it... and often end up just laying your fork down.

A couple people have used a food metaphor this year to describe different corps show. That makes me think of a dinner out a few months ago, for a birthday celebration, at a fancy restaurant where the cheese "tour" had been recommended. The waiter brings out a tray with a couple dozen cheeses, describes them all at length, and then your table picks seven of them. My three companions each picked two for us to try, and I let the waiter select the last one. I asked him to pick something adventurous. He asked if I minded if it was a "funky" choice. I told him to go for it.

It was the most hideous thing I've ever tasted. A rotting corpse mixed with old gym shoes. If a food could be evil, this would be the one. That some people actually like such cheese can only suggests to me that they're not right in the head.

That's how I imagine some people feel about BD's show.

[Plan9]

A couple people have used a food metaphor this year to describe different corps show. That makes me think of a dinner out a few months ago, for a birthday celebration, at a fancy restaurant where the cheese "tour" had been recommended. The waiter brings out a tray with a couple dozen cheeses, describes them all at length, and then your table picks seven of them. My three companions each picked two for us to try, and I let the waiter select the last one. I asked him to pick something adventurous. He asked if I minded if it was a "funky" choice. I told him to go for it.

It was the most hideous thing I've ever tasted. A rotting corpse mixed with old gym shoes. If a food could be evil, this would be the one. That some people actually like such cheese can only suggests to me that they're not right in the head.

That's how I imagine some people feel about BD's show.

Yes, but at least you tasted it! :spitting:/>

[flammaster]

I think Crowns show is like a fine German Heffe Weissen. BD's show is like a Belgian Triple Ale. Cadets I would compare to an American IPA. SCV is like a Lager.

[MartinO]

You say his assessment of BD is "spot on" but apparently you ignored what he said. You suggest that BD's drill is less demanding but he explains that "The scope and variety of different elements going on simultaneously but working together to form a cohesive visual program in the Blue Devils' show is staggering." and it is being done across the entire field constantly. The best corps with the best performance of the best designed show will win tomorrow night....and unlike you, if it's BD, I'll be thrilled..... if it's CC or Cadets...I will be surprised, but equally pleased for the Champions....they will have earned it.

This drills down to the core of what the BD have figured out. Keep the judgeable drill simpler so you can execute the visible portions. Don't play the more difficult passages of your brass or percussion books while on the move (like Crown and Cadets do). Yes, there are a variety of different elements going on all the time, but these are the smoke and mirrors of the Blue Devils program. Because all the elements are different, they may look really cool, they may act and emote very well, but how on earth is a judge supposed to score the execution on it? How are they supposed to look at ten people doing ten different things and determine if they are doing any of them right? In this manner they are hiding their mistakes. Do they have a few difficult drill moments here and there? Sure. But look closer. They aren't playing music when they execute them. They've been doing this sort of thing now for the last four years at least. I'm still trying to figure out how they get awarded the points they do for the difficulty of their program on an equal level to Crown and Cadets when they are doing this. The fans can see what they are doing, why can't the judges? And in the end it still wouldn't matter as much to the bulk of the crowd if they still did alll this and won, IF they would just make an effort to entertain the way they used to instead of morphing into the obscure modern art form they have become.