JimF-LowBari Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 Right, sorry. Awkward moment ... No problem, at least you knew what BITD meant... Had to ask IIRC when I started here... #### old people on the Internet... Yeah, just trying to find out if the horns were 2v, etc, etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruckner8 Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 Quick question... what is considered BITD in this case... Any year where everyone was on G, and within that year's context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82ryder Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 In an earlier thread about this subject, someone posted this link to a John Simpson article describing the difference and how it involved the range of overtones the instruments could handle. Having competed in a Simpson horn line, I respect his opinion on any and all things bugle related... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alumniof Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 Back in the day was a Wednesday....by the way - Dane Cook. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 (edited) Any year where everyone was on G, and within that year's context. Not sure how far back you go but I would have thought the number of good hornlines would have gone up as the equipment improved. That's why I was asking thinking you had a specific era in mind. I know I hear some horns badly losing their tone on the last (held) note of the show in recordings of some piston/rotor lines of my day. And just watched a vid of part of a show I was in during 79 season. Some of the Bari notes just sound horrible and I thinking a 3rd valve was badly needed. But that's the way it was written and was while we were playing slowly. Heavens knows we questioned it enough times.... And thanks for the reminded of John Simpson. We met him last year at DCA and hope to see him again in a few weeks. Had a very nice talk with him on things other than corps. Edited August 16, 2013 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruckner8 Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Not sure how far back you go but I would have thought the number of good hornlines would have gone up as the equipment improved. That's why I was asking thinking you had a specific era in mind. I know I hear some horns badly losing their tone on the last (held) note of the show in recordings of some piston/rotor lines of my day. And just watched a vid of part of a show I was in during 79 season. Some of the Bari notes just sound horrible and I thinking a 3rd valve was badly needed. But that's the way it was written and was while we were playing slowly. Heavens knows we questioned it enough times.... And thanks for the reminded of John Simpson. We met him last year at DCA and hope to see him again in a few weeks. Had a very nice talk with him on things other than corps. every year had a few amazing hornlines for the time. It's not an absolute measurement. During the now times, there are more quality lines, and I attribute it to B-flats, because they are easier/familiar. I met John when he came out to SCV's site last week. Good guy, good talker, lol. He liked me cuz we agreed on practically all matters in DCI today and before! Fun stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 (edited) Too much of the discussion focuses on key, rather than the design. Back when dinosaurs roamed the planet and my musical journey began, bands and drum corps played completely dissimilar instruments. It had nothing to do with the key. It was about the shape and construction of the instrument. The defining element of drum corps bugles was and still is the bell front design. There wasn't a marching band anywhere that employed straight bell front baritones, euphoniums, or tubas. My high school band, as did the vast majority, marched their concert instruments, except for switching out the tubas for sousaphones. Yes, the keys were different, but they weren't similar instruments of different lengths. During the 1970's, the design of outdoor marching brass began to converge. Corps added upright valves and bands adopted the bell front design of the drum corps bugle. At that point, the instruments began to resemble one another, with the key of the instrument now becoming a more important factor. Many believed that the key of the instrument was more than an aural distinction. It became a line of demarkation that made the drum and bugle corps activity unique. By the 1990's, both Kanstul and Dynasty produced side by side sets of marching brass instruments for corps and bands. A novice would be have been hard pressed to tell one from the other by looking at them. For reasons that have been discussed in the thread, corps switched keys to Bb and F instruments. While this is the traditional key of bands, the design of the instruments is one based on the single valve bugle, with it's distinctive straight bell front that I played in my youth. One could argue that bands adopted drum corps bugles and one could argue that drum corps adopted band instruments. There is truth in both points of view. As far as sound, there have been great drum corps brass lines throughout the history of the activity. I've enjoyed them all G or Bb/F. It's really about the performers and all the hard work and practice they put in over the course of the season to make drum corps the world's best arena for outdoor brass performance. Edited August 16, 2013 by Jeff 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobchilds Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 This topic will really show my ignorance, but that's why I'm asking. I see a lot of mention of G bugles occasionally in forums. From what I've read it seems that in the very early 2000s most corps switched form bugles to trumpets, tubas, etc. My understanding of a bugle is that there they are a valveless (occasionally 1 valve or even rarer 2 valves) brass instruments that have a limited note set due to one note per partial. Listening to old recordings it doesn't sound like corps played music limited by bugles so obviously they used more notes than just one per partial. Also, I've generally seen people say that they think the bugles were better for corps and fewer others who say that the switch has been better for the sound of the hornline. Any info you could give me to understand more of corps history with bugles? Thanks. I really respect that you are asking about this. Others are giving a lot of good information here, so I won't go into that. But I do suggest that you really listen to the tone of this soprano player from Spirit of Atlanta 1984. I just don't think you could ever get that sound out of a trumpet. To expound a little on the topic, I would be curious to know how a line of Bb cornets would sound. With the conical bore, and the standard key, I wonder how significantly the tone would change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurseboy Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 I marched 3 seasons (88-90) playing 2-valve G bugles. I can tell you right now that I can hear the difference between a line playing G horns vs B flat horns. As others have already stated, G horns had a much brighter tone thanks to the overtones they could produce. B flat hornlines sound "duller" to my ears. G horns also have a more power. I remember the SCV shaking the stands in Cincinnati back in '88 during their victory encore. I don't get that sense of power with modern lines. Some say that B flat horns have better intonation. Maybe so, but I preferred the rawer, more powerful sounds for G horns. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllianaLancerContra Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 (edited) This topic will really show my ignorance, but that's why I'm asking. I see a lot of mention of G bugles occasionally in forums. From what I've read it seems that in the very early 2000s most corps switched form bugles to trumpets, tubas, etc. My understanding of a bugle is that there they are a valveless (occasionally 1 valve or even rarer 2 valves) brass instruments that have a limited note set due to one note per partial. Listening to old recordings it doesn't sound like corps played music limited by bugles so obviously they used more notes than just one per partial. Also, I've generally seen people say that they think the bugles were better for corps and fewer others who say that the switch has been better for the sound of the hornline. Any info you could give me to understand more of corps history with bugles? Thanks. I am going to do an experiment. I have tickets to DCA prelims, am bringing along several family members that are basically familiar w/ DC, but not specific keys. I will see what they, casual fans, think of the various G lines in comparison to the B-flat lines which are rough equivalents ( Kilties to someone about the same size; ES to someone the same size, etc.) I'll report back in a few weeks. Edited for an idea - does anyone know if there is a decible-meter app I can have daughter to load onto her i-phone? Edited August 18, 2013 by IllianaLancerContra 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.