Someone please explain e=mc^2 to me, because I really don't like/g

[Jeff Ream]

IMO..there are pleanty of shows that theres enough visually and musically that who the heck cares...crown..just had a good show and who cared about the theme or following a story...jmo

oh I enjoyed many things about Crown's performance ( not the percussion)...but shows are designed for people to get it....and even in this thread you have people saying they didn't. If you're designing a show so deep and people still don't get it, that's IMO an issue.

and, I realy hate to agree with the BD honks, but I'm sure some of the crowds reaction was that BD didn't win. This show didn't connect on a level like Phantom 08

( wow I feel dirty :tongue:/> )

[GUARDLING]

oh I enjoyed many things about Crown's performance ( not the percussion)...but shows are designed for people to get it....and even in this thread you have people saying they didn't. If you're designing a show so deep and people still don't get it, that's IMO an issue.

and, I realy hate to agree with the BD honks, but I'm sure some of the crowds reaction was that BD didn't win. This show didn't connect on a level like Phantom 08

( wow I feel dirty :tongue:/>/>/>/>/> )

i agree with your last statement BUT I also say that if someone needs to know the story line that bad and like some pick out some small thing they thought didnt connect to the theme and cant see enough in the show to be " entertained " either that corps did something wrong that there isnt enough to hold interest or the viewer needs to go get a beverage and wait for another :doh:/>/>

PS: you may not believe it BUT there were many who also felt that way in 08..many

Edited August 31, 2013 by GUARDLING

[skevinp]

oh I enjoyed many things about Crown's performance ( not the percussion)...but shows are designed for people to get it....and even in this thread you have people saying they didn't. If you're designing a show so deep and people still don't get it, that's IMO an issue.

and, I realy hate to agree with the BD honks, but I'm sure some of the crowds reaction was that BD didn't win. This show didn't connect on a level like Phantom 08

( wow I feel dirty :tongue:/>/> )

Even in this thread, the one about not getting Crown's show, there were some people that didn't get Crown's show? That is surprising indeed.

Yes it's an issue all right. The rare show that less than 100% of the fans got. The rare show that didn't connect on a level that Phantom 08. I hope they can live with the shame.

[Michael Boo]

Well, I could be off on this, but after thinking about it on and off for awhile, I think this is where the OP's questions and assertions went off-road.

<The first time I saw Crown's show I was pretty offended by it>

Okay...that probably wasn't the best way to start off a discussion and hopefully a learning experience...but, hey.

<I REALLY don't like the counting>

Okay...not liking something goes along with the territory of being a fan. We're not going to like everything...that's fine.

<I actually hate the narration>

"Hate" is such a gentle word.

<I don't think a narrated story has ANY place in DCI.>

I'm beginning to see a pattern develop here.

<It covers a relatively weak ballad.>

The ballad was weak? Why?

<Sure, their hornline was absolutely dialed in, can't deny that.>

Well, if it was a weak ballad, it probably didn't take that much effort to dial in to it. But again, why was it weak?

<But the music does nothing for me.>

Ah...it was "weak" because he didn't like it. Got it.

<Especially what they hid under the narration during the ballad piece.>

Personally, I still heard a heck of a horn line playing with clarity, emotion and hyper-sensitivity during the narration. But perhaps it was because I didn't get out a stopwatch and calculate how much the horn line was playing or marching.

<I also did a little personal calculating and found that Crown's hornline is neither playing or marching for a full 26% of the show.>

Well, I guess someone did the work for me.

<That's appalling.>

I wonder if he has any thoughts about the gassing of Syrian citizens.

<I'm afraid in our eagerness for Crown to finally beat BD, Crown became them.>

I've always just been eager for the best corps to win and for all the corps to bring something unique to the field...but I'm funny that way.

<Also, I'm not one of the old DCI fans. I'm not even 20 yet, and was only introduced to DCI just 3 years ago.>

Well, there goes all the Wilford Brimley comparisons I was going to offer.

<So, this isn't someone pining for the days before b-flat trumpets and amplification.>

I remember those days...The air was pure and cute little bunny rabbits brought chocolate to all the good girls and boys. That's probably why I didn't have my first cavity until I turned 30.

<Anyways, this opinion has not been well received around the internet or among my friends.>

The Internet is like that. And maybe you need new friends.

<Given the huge negative backlash, I'm looking for someone who could explain this show to me in a way that would make sense of it all.>

Well, you've come to the right place. How's it working out for you so far?

Please appreciate my comments knowing I exhausted my search for the perfect smiley to accompany each one.

[skevinp]

I'm sure some of the crowds reaction was that BD didn't win.

And I'm sure the 5 or so standing ovations they got during their show was because the crowd had all travelled into the future to learn that BD didn't win.

Apparently the wormholes really work!

[brichtimp]

I think Patrick Swayze in his immortal B movie, Road House, summarized all of this in two words....."opinions vary." I dig the fact that DCI (like the Berlin Phil) can be enjoyed on multiple levels. If a viewer can't find a level that appeals, then, it is what it is. For example, I really liked the fact that Crown integrated Glass, Silvestri, Moren, Strauss and Lovatt-Cooper into an interesting set of drills designed to feature a kick-butt brass line.....ymmv.

[troon8]

I don't always succeed, but I try not to categorize shows into a black and white, "got it" vs. "don't get it" duality. It's just not how I experience them. I've found that thinking "will I 'get' this show?" as a corps marches on to the field precludes me from recognizing that despite the tendency here to take sides for or against "getting" a show, most shows have both things I understand (sometimes only partially, sometimes totally,) and things I don't. And sometimes these don't always correspond with the things I like or dislike. Sure, I'd much rather understand what was intended with a design element then not, but there have been plenty of times where I've been left scratching my head at what was happening while still enjoying the presentation, and visa versa.

I could've gone with any corps, (including Crown,) but I'm going to use this year's Oregon Crusaders as an example. There were plenty of things happening on the field that I didn't fully understand. I wasn't crystal clear on what was being portrayed and how those parts connected to each other. In most cases I had some guesses, but other then the show designers, who's to say whether my perceptions were right to wrong? Yet there were some things that I thought came across pretty clearly thematically, and it wasn't hard for me to look back and say, "Yes, I very much enjoyed this show!" So you tell me, did I "get" the show? If my interpretation had been different than what the designers intended, does that mean my reaction was somehow wrong and that I "didn't really get it?"

In a nutshell...sometimes I think that some on here (not necessarily the OP) use "I got it" vs. "I didn't get it" as shorthand for "show good" vs. "show bad" when there is so much nuance to be found in between. I've "gotten" shows I've hated, and loved shows I "didn't get."

Even if I see/hear/understand a different interpretation than what the designer intended, does that make my perception and experience as an audience member somehow wrong? I say no. And that is why I wouldn't have asked the original question.

Edited August 31, 2013 by troon8

[dasboot]

I'm going to be completely honest, I didn't fully understand the show Carolina Crown performed this year, and I'm ok with that. I enjoyed how well they played and marched. Personally, I look at the champion as who we like the best that year, and besides Jersey Surf (obviously) I liked Blue Devils the best. Again, I didn't fully understand the show, but for some reason it connected with me more than Crown's show did.

And all of this, is just my opinion

[Cavfan930]

I know this thread is pretty much dead, but here's some closing notes from me, the OP:

1. I apologize for using such strong language from the get go. I encouraged other users to be aggressive and somewhat hurtful in their comments here, and I'm sorry that I did that.

2. I use strong language when I'm defending my opinions because that's how I was always taught to do it. I also avoid saying something is an opinion at all costs, for several reasons. First of all, it weakens an argument from the get go. Secondly, if I'm writing it, it's already my opinion and saying so is therefore repetitive. One of my favorite teachers in high school never let us say I think, I believe, or in my opinion. Those were cardinals sins in that class, and following those rules has made me a better writer.

3. That being said, everything I posted here is in fact my opinion. All of us have them, all of us want them heard. That's why we come to DCP.

4. On both sides of this argument (and in some other threads) I've noticed a disturbing trend where people write off people who are simply expressing themselves as complaining. I don't know if they do this because they don't want to listen to what the other user has to say or what, but it's kind of a silly thing to say on a forum that really only exists as long as there are things for us to argue about. If we all came on here and said, "Such and such was really cool" and "Yes I agree" then these forums would be deserted except for the occasional posting of DCI news. So I plead with everyone, avoid telling other people to stop expressing their thoughts and feelings about whatever subject is in the thread. Strive to understand.

5. Each time I replied to a critique of my comments on this thread, I tried very hard to ensure that my comments were clarifying my position, not attacking others or shoving my opinion down other people's throats. In the same class from #2 I was always taught to debate in the affirmative, not the negative. Good debate depends on people offering support for their side, not pointing out weaknesses in the other.

6. I violate #5 on a daily basis. It is my greatest weakness when talking to people, when writing, when everything.

7. Getting more involved in DCP has shown me that there are people out there that believe that opposite of me, just as strongly as I do. And that's fantastic. Hopefully we can all learn together, and maybe find one or two things we can agree on.

Thank you to those who helped me understand e=mc^2 a little better. And while my opinion of the show hasn't changed, I am grateful to you for being patient with me while I continue to learn about DCI and the marching arts writ large. (Especially kcbari (?), Michael Boo, and charlie1223)

[kcbari]

As I may have said before (and say to my students all of the time):

Opinions are like noses; we all have one, and we only get to pick our own.

After that, it's a good idea to make sure that you have an informed opinion so that people can't blow you out of the water with facts that destroy your position (are you listening, politicians?).

Another thing I tell my kids is: lack of knowledge is ignorance. Ignorance is OK...once. Willful ignorance is way past stupid. Avoid this. Whether you agree with facts or not, learn them so that when you take a stand, it is strong.