cixelsyd Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 The corps are responsible for the rights to arrange and perform the works. They are not responsible for the synch rights to appear on the DVD's and CD's. Yes, but they should be working with DCI to avoid music with known rights problems. DCI should have a no-play list like BOA does, so that corps are notified in advance not to use songs that will cause such issues. While this makes sense on a logical level (I don't know the legal issues), I do wonder if the corps that did not obtain those rights will get a cut of media sales when they don't appear on that (international) media. I don't know how much revenue comes from international sales but, if a corps wants their piece of that action, I would think they'd pay closer attention to the rights involved before they choose their content. And this raises another point. Corps who select troublesome music should lose their cut of DCI sales for products on which they could not be included as a result. I will bet corps would pay more attention to mech/synch rights if this policy was in place. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Yes, but they should be working with DCI to avoid music with known rights problems. DCI should have a no-play list like BOA does, so that corps are notified in advance not to use songs that will cause such issues. I thought the BOA list was primaily around works/composers who do not want their music arranged for use in performance, not synch rights. My own view is that as long as the corps can get the rights to arrange and perform, that is all they should worry about in selecting show music. I'd prefer that they are on the DVDs, but for me that is not a showstopper for the music a corps selects. If they don't care whether or not they are on the DVD, fine by me. And this raises another point. Corps who select troublesome music should lose their cut of DCI sales for products on which they could not be included as a result. I will bet corps would pay more attention to mech/synch rights if this policy was in place. Agree on this. If they are not on the product they should not receive any financial benefit from the sale of the product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakyswotboy Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 I have also been experiencing problems with the option of the digital downloads for the past couple of years in the UK. I have sent messages to DCI but also have had no response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 I thought the BOA list was primaily around works/composers who do not want their music arranged for use in performance, not synch rights. My own view is that as long as the corps can get the rights to arrange and perform, that is all they should worry about in selecting show music. And really, the BOA list isn't even that, it's just kind of a forewarning list that 'these composers have denied rights in the past, so if you want to use their music get it OK'ed before you design your show.' We wanted to use a piece from this list in our show this year, and we still asked (denied) the copyright holder if they had changed their mind (they hadn't) :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Freedman Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 I think the idea of including the 13th place corps on the international version should resolve this issue (I mean the immediate issue, not the larger issue of prevention). And there's no reason not to publish Blu-Ray for these customers. How can it not be financially feasible? How much does it cost to create, package, and ship a Blu-Ray disk? Look how freaking much DCI is getting for it! (I'm not begrudging them that at all). I have never heard that in general limited runs of Blu-Ray disks are not financially feasible, although of course you may need to go through a different company. Consider runs of 10, 100, or 1000. (We don't know the demand). Yes you would use different companies/methods for each of these scenarios, but how could it possibly cost more than $132 per item to create? Is it prohibitively expensive to create a media set as a copy of the domestic one, deleting the BD show and (perhaps) adding the Troopers?. Can someone explain to me what's so expensive about this? ...or is DCI just not making enough off their loyal international fans to bother with? That's my concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 I think the idea of including the 13th place corps on the international version should resolve this issue (I mean the immediate issue, not the larger issue of prevention). And there's no reason not to publish Blu-Ray for these customers. How can it not be financially feasible? How much does it cost to create, package, and ship a Blu-Ray disk? Look how freaking much DCI is getting for it! (I'm not begrudging them that at all). I have never heard that in general limited runs of Blu-Ray disks are not financially feasible, although of course you may need to go through a different company. Consider runs of 10, 100, or 1000. (We don't know the demand). Yes you would use different companies/methods for each of these scenarios, but how could it possibly cost more than $132 per item to create? Is it prohibitively expensive to create a media set as a copy of the domestic one, deleting the BD show and (perhaps) adding the Troopers?. Can someone explain to me what's so expensive about this? ...or is DCI just not making enough off their loyal international fans to bother with? That's my concern. From what I understand, it is expensive to master & duplicate Blu-ray discs. I don't think it's as easy as sitting at a computer, deleting a file, clicking the "burn" button, and calling it a day. I wouldn't be surprised if DCI is maybe at the "break even" point with having to remaster/rewrite a separate DVD for international customers: I would stipulate that international customers are a small fraction of total sales, and thus not economically feasible for DCI to create separate blu-ray discs. I could be wrong, though: just my slightly informed guess 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Freedman Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 (edited) From what I understand, it is expensive to master & duplicate Blu-ray discs. I don't think it's as easy as sitting at a computer, deleting a file, clicking the "burn" button, and calling it a day. I wouldn't be surprised if DCI is maybe at the "break even" point with having to remaster/rewrite a separate DVD for international customers: I would stipulate that international customers are a small fraction of total sales, and thus not economically feasible for DCI to create separate blu-ray discs. I could be wrong, though: just my slightly informed guess On the one hand, from what I'm reading online, the cost of professionally produced BRD's is only slightly higher than DVDs. I'm seeing prices around $7.50 per disk for the smallest run size of 10. That includes the case, and full color printing for both the disk itself and the case insert. Yes I know those might be scams, and there are hidden costs, and DCI may insist on higher quality, and their own costs to master one more disk as well, etc. However, I found this on this forum post from 2009: Blu-ray utilizes the Advanced Access Content System (AACS). This system is designed to prevent illegal copying of DVDs and it's inclusion is mandatory on all Blu-ray disks. As with Macrovision for SD DVDs, AACS has licensing and royalty fees. The client applies for an AACS license with a one-time fee of $3000. Then there's an AACS per title fee ranging from $1500 - $1785, a $.05 per disc fee, mastering fees, and other miscellaneous fees. These do not include the cost of authoring or replication. That would seem to make the deal I quoted above impossible. There must be more to the story, but this may be the part of the reason DCI feel they can't do a limited run of Blu-Rays. It's hard to know more without better numbers. Edited September 10, 2013 by Pete Freedman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrassClef Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 so any international people want me to buy them a copy and then ship it to them? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrassClef Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 (edited) double post, thanks internet explorer! Edited September 11, 2013 by BrassClef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 I thought the BOA list was primaily around works/composers who do not want their music arranged for use in performance, not synch rights. My own view is that as long as the corps can get the rights to arrange and perform, that is all they should worry about in selecting show music. I'd prefer that they are on the DVDs, but for me that is not a showstopper for the music a corps selects. If they don't care whether or not they are on the DVD, fine by me. No, the BOA list also takes synch rights into account. BOA films and sells video for every single one of their events; that service is part of their revenue equation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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