DCI BOD Drama....more to come?

[MikeD]

56 here and IIRC MIke is close too.....

Older than both of you...turned 60 in October!

[MikeD]

but the number of scholastic programs that are competition friendly may be at best half of the total number. you will always have schools and directors for whatever reason are not drum corps friendly, and as such, you'll never fully tap the market

Oh, that is absolutely true, but IMO there is still a long way to go to get to the ones that are potentially available. With 25K+ HS bands, there are all sorts of approaches and likes/dislikes. The key is that the number is huge, esp as compared to the shrinking pool of us old-timers. And, with kids moving through the schools, the number is at least stable and has an opportunity to grow if DCI can hold on to even a small percentage.

[MikeD]

actually it is a problem...because it never truly grows the business. it just slowly spins a cycle smaller and smaller

No, not really a problem, esp as compared to depending on an ever-shrinking population. There is at least the chance to grow...focussing on the past is the best way to ensure a decline.

And of course...there are still LOTS of legacy fans at shows. DCI is not ignoring them. But the only place to have a chance of increasing the audience is to focus on where the people who might be interested are...school bands, HS and college.

IMO, anyway.

[BRASSO]

Just as with drum corps, the Catholic church will HAVE to evolve to avoid demise.

There is hope for drum corps however.

If only the Drum Corps movement could have had the growth in both the US (and in the world) that the Catholic Church has had the last decade. As many here are probably aware (or perhaps not aware, who knows) the largest increase in the numbers of religious worshippers in both the US ( and in the world) has been in the Catholic Church.

http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Growth-in-number-of-Catholics-worldwide,-number-of-priests-and-seminarians-also-increase-27907.html

http://blog.chron.com/believeitornot/2011/02/catholic-church-growing-baptist-and-mainline-protestant-numbers-decline/

Edited December 18, 2013 by BRASSO

[BRASSO]

spot on !!!!! THANK YOU....again I will say....finally some real reasons why the activity is the way it is now and how the local thing that we may have had is changed forever...mainly because the resources from the past are GONE..I also agree with your statement on evolving....

Absolutely.... the " local thing " has come and gone. We all might consider broadening our horizons in order to properly assess what has been happening of late. Many here it seems to me are looking at this evolution thru their own personal prism of what is happening " 'locally ", ie North America. While North America Drum Corps may ( or may not be ) in decline, Drum Corps is evolving and growing now throughout the world. In many parts of the world, the numbers of participants, the numbers of fans, the numbers of Drum Corps is growing, and in some cases exponentially. It is afterall called " Drum Corps INTERNATIONAL ", not" Drum Corps USA " or Drum Corps North America ". DCI has clearly begun to see the future in the next 50 years and is expanding itself into fertile regions of the world for its growth. Its often said that " we live in a Global World now ". Well... that sentiment does not, nor should not exclude our overall assessments of the status of the Drum Corps activity either it seems to me. Its no longer " local " and has not been " local " for decades now. Drum Corps participation may be in decline in North America, but this does not appear to be the case at all in many other parts of the world. Drum Corps is now " Global " and as such, this is where we have seen its biggest growth the last decade or so, and this is likely where we will continue to see the growth in the coming decades as well, imo.

Edited December 18, 2013 by BRASSO

[danielray]

Someone had mentioned barriers to entry, the issue is not so much the barriers to starting a new group, but the definition of what is a drum corps and the actual expected outcomes.

While there are clear and significant barriers if you intend to suddenly create a group that tours extensively and is on the level of the top 25 or so in the world. Beyond that, there are very few real barriers, particularly if your aim is genuinely effect youth.

We're in the middle of this right now, going from zero to now 250+ kids in exactly one year, all from one small financially-challenged rural community in a tiny post-Soviet country. It can be done and it doesn't cost all that much if you are taking steps that are both achievable and sustainable.

Sustainable is the key word. This is the only point that matters, if you are measuring the success by the impact you are able to make with youth, particularly in the area of developing tangible life skills.

Unfortunately, too many organizations in the US are measuring the success of their program through competitive placement, rather than how it impacts youth and communities as a whole. This is part of the reason why there are so many drum corps that have folded over the years (another is certainly the fact they were made redundant by the appearance of scholastic band programs within the same community).

Bottom line...

1) The definition of drum corps should not be limited to the highest performing corps, touring extensively for weeks on end (though this should probably be the definition of DCI).

2) While drum corps appears to be in decline in the US, it is growing exponentially in many parts of the world.

3) A select group of top competitive corps are an extremely valuable inspirational and aspirational tool for fueling the growth of the activity globally - seeing excellence inspires youth to participate. These are absolutely essential, but there does not need to be a large number of them to have a genuine impact.

4) The future of drum corps is very likely not in the US. This is not necessarily a bad thing.

5) Rather than mourning the death of programs built on an unsustainable model, celebrate the birth of hundreds of new sustainable programs in communities around the globe. Inspire, encourage and support their development. This ripple effect can impact far more youth than simply a competitive touring program.

Edited December 18, 2013 by danielray

[JimF-LowBari]

I realize that 9/11 changed a lot and passports are something to be considered as you pointed out. How much is a U.S. passport - $100?

People still cross the border every day. Music acts come here all the time and they sell souvenirs at their shows.

Biggest headache is the delay in getting them, even if no problems occur. Not sure when members are told they make the cut but I'd tell them to start the process months ahead of time. And hope there are no screwups in getting them.

Have read a few horror stories on DCP that mostly have to do with earning money in the non-native country but can't remember the details. IIRC one of the Alumni corps (forget which side of the border) said they get paid for performing at the show they were going to and that hit some kind of employment reguation in the guards eyes. Corps ended up not going to the show because either they would be late or didn't have the peperwork needed (forget which). Also understand lot of paperwork involved to sell foreign souvies in the "other" country.

Plus the time required to search the buses, equipment trucks, sovie trucks, etc, etc.

A lot depends on if something is said (we get paid) or seen by the guards that raise any flags. My wife and I spent 45 mintes with a guard crossing back into the US because we had a bunch of loose Niagara Falls/Toronto sovies in the back seat. No idea what he thought but he took my drivers license and refused to tell me when I would get it back. Of course I refused to move until he told me so... uhh... it got testy. Finally his supervisor came out and said he would give me the license when done. We go in the security area and the super hit the roof when he found out the problem was a bunch of sovies that had a low value. He actually told the other super "Can you believe they were pulled over for this ####" in front of us. So the human element can really mess things up..

Now if the corps happens to try to enter at a time of higher risk (Al Queda making threats, etc) all bets are off on time needed to enter.

Edited December 18, 2013 by JimF-LowBari

[cixelsyd]

But unlike legacy drum corps fans, an ever-shrinking pool of audience members, band kids and their parents are a constantly renewable resource.

Legacy fans are renewable too. We get new ones every year. (Think "ageouts".)

[cixelsyd]

The drum corps activity isn't broken. Maybe a little worse for wear, and a couple of bloody noses... but not broken. Yet.

The touring model and amount of money we're charging for the experience is broken.

When the organizations involved start to realize how many more kids/adults could be helped in their own back yards with the millions of dollars being raised, rather than paying bus companies, fuel conglomerates, and the like.... then we'll start to see the emergence of something more sustainable, and in the long run, more valuable to our culture and society.

If one accepts this model:

(Lose money touring) ---> (Lose corps for lack of money) ----> (Keep current tour model)

: then we are going to experience a very predictable demise.

To do the same thing over and over... and expect different results... (fill in the blank as you wish).

But we are getting different results.

"The model" that has existed for as long as I can tell - half-crazed leaders herding bunches of half-crazed marchers across the country to compete in a nationwide championship with similar half-crazed organizations - has never been sustainable. Yet, here we are, a circuit full of corps with up to 80 years of unsustainable history behind them.

Forty years ago, we created a governing agency (DCI) specifically to make things more sustainable - and that agency set about doubling down (quadrupling down?) on the very same touring and other costly components that you express concern over now. And yet, here we are, 40 corps who somehow manage a much lower attrition rate than past eras.

Perhaps instead of fighting over an ever-shrinking piece of pie, we should figure out how to make more pie... and THAT... is what forward-thinking people are trying to do on all sides of the issues.

Sure, if there were more corps, we would be helping more kids. We would also be entertaining more audiences, attracting more fans... in effect, "making more pie", as you say. I am all for that. To be honest, the smaller number of corps we have today has made it necessary to tour nationally in order to provide the drum corps experience for more than just a couple of weeks; therefore, the only way to really change the cost curve of touring is to grow more corps again.

[HockeyDad]

Would you say this reduction shows that the Catholic church is in decline, or that it shows the Catholic church is evolving?

I see what you did there.