cixelsyd Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 being open minded to change is good...if you want to make it a popularity contest thats fine ( wont ever happeen but ok ) then change all the rules and the activity. dont expect it to stay the same...and dont assume the best corps will win, thats for sure. The best corps according to who? Judging is subjective. (I am sure you did not need a reminder of that.) Also how can you say ANY amount wont change outcomes... I did not say that. even if it were a few tenths...tell that to anyone...12th place could be out....1st down to 3rd..all on a whim and the fan fav. of the night..insanity IMO....... Outcomes change on the whim of a single individual judge all the time. (If not, there would be no need to judge more than one show per year.) For someone who shrugs off just about any change ever proposed, I am amazed at how you bristle at this idea. I mean, here we are - not just us on DCP, but the powers that be in DCI committees who are tinkering with the judging system for the umpteenth time because even though all judging is subjective, we cannot seem to get a grasp on judging "general effect". Maybe the problem is that "general" effect requires a small fraction of input from the "general" public, instead of just the same eight people who judged the same shows over and over all summer long. As the earlier example shows, a system can be devised for incorporating such input at such a small percentage so that only the closest battles between corps would ever see placement changes... changes probably already taking place from day to day during the season... but that might be just enough incentive to cause corps to think outside the judges box. Your reaction sounds like fear. What are you afraid of, really? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 totally agree.....what some forget hundreds of thousands and millions of dollars are also spent.....its not just unfair to those who achieve over those who happen top have a few more fans in the stands its a money issue also....im not saying spending more money should be given a higher spot ( those who want to jump on that ) BUT alot is spent in the activity and shouldnt be fooled around with.. Really? Four years ago, our leading corps proposed we "fool around" with how $100,000s of DCI payments to corps are allocated, based on the unquantifiable assertion that their corps are somehow more responsible for drawing fans and their money into DCI in the first place. We actually had to debate that insanity (and still are). So apparently, we are long past ruling out ideas because they might have some tiny effect on the relative amounts of DCI revenue different corps receive. Any corps who believes that premise ought to have no problem with putting their money where their mouth is (which might explain why those corps seem more interested in incorporating a fan vote somehow). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 (edited) Really? Four years ago, our leading corps proposed we "fool around" with how MILLIONS of DCI payments to corps are allocated, based on the unquantifiable assertion that their corps are somehow more responsible for drawing fans and their money into DCI in the first place. We actually had to debate that insanity (and still are). So apparently, we are long past ruling out ideas because they might have some tiny effect on the relative amounts of DCI revenue different corps receive. Any corps who believes that premise ought to have no problem with putting their money where their mouth is (which might explain why those corps seem more interested in incorporating a fan vote somehow). Fixed that for ya'. Perspective is important in that discussion. Oh, and I wish you'd restate this a little clearer. There's a good point in there, I think, but I can't make it out. Edited March 14, 2014 by garfield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 (edited) Really? Four years ago, our leading corps proposed we "fool around" with how $100,000s of DCI payments to corps are allocated, based on the unquantifiable assertion that their corps are somehow more responsible for drawing fans and their money into DCI in the first place. We actually had to debate that insanity (and still are). So apparently, we are long past ruling out ideas because they might have some tiny effect on the relative amounts of DCI revenue different corps receive. Any corps who believes that premise ought to have no problem with putting their money where their mouth is (which might explain why those corps seem more interested in incorporating a fan vote somehow). you dont leave random placement based or who happens to be in the stands on a given night....tell the kid who was better ( which you dont respond to ) that mommy and daddy..or a pack of maybe my older friends or some band moms ( pick your choice ) showed up , so thats they the other corps won...not because they were better. there's much more at stake for alot of people, than to leave things up to chance.......................if Im not getting what youre saying ,, please explain and I appologise then change is good..maybe not always BUT if as you say GE is a problem with x amount of individuals throwing a few thousands more into the mix making decisions...with NO criteria or guidelines ....how does that fix it? Edited March 14, 2014 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 you dont leave random placement based or who happens to be in the stands on a given night....tell the kid who was better ( which you dont respond to ) that mommy and daddy..or a pack of maybe my older friends or some band moms ( pick your choice ) showed up , so thats they the other corps won...not because they were better. there's much more at stake for alot of people, than to leave things up to chance.......................if Im not getting what youre saying ,, please explain and I appologise then change is good..maybe not always BUT if as you say GE is a problem with x amount of individuals throwing a few thousands more into the mix making decisions...with NO criteria or guidelines ....how does that fix it? We already leave random placement based on who happens to be in the stands on a given night. We have a small group of people judging DCI, and I don't see or hear of very many new faces coming thorough, and it doesn't matter why or why not. It only matters that the small group is the same and they have their favorites and bias just like John Q Public. We all know the jokes about specific judges favoring particular corps if they can. We've had some lively discussion on here about that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 (edited) We already leave random placement based on who happens to be in the stands on a given night. We have a small group of people judging DCI, and I don't see or hear of very many new faces coming thorough, and it doesn't matter why or why not. It only matters that the small group is the same and they have their favorites and bias just like John Q Public. We all know the jokes about specific judges favoring particular corps if they can. We've had some lively discussion on here about that. discussion doesnt mean fact at all....I agree some new blood is needed .....is it random? ..i dont think so BUT at least they are heald to some sort of criteria..and if they suggest anything to a corps then seen again there are ways to hold people accountable..if not to them to a caption head....how do you do that with a crowd....how do you move on one night based on whatever and move to the next thing...what info is given...random nights? random people? random experience? random random random...i dont or at least would be shocked if it ever happend anyway.......maybe a fan vote..making a decision or given some points...I would say NEVER , hopefully....but I also have learned never say never Edited March 14, 2014 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 you dont leave random placement based or who happens to be in the stands on a given night....tell the kid who was better ( which you dont respond to ) that mommy and daddy..or a pack of maybe my older friends or some band moms ( pick your choice ) showed up , so thats they the other corps won...not because they were better. there's much more at stake for alot of people, than to leave things up to chance.......................if Im not getting what youre saying ,, please explain and I appologise then change is good..maybe not always BUT if as you say GE is a problem with x amount of individuals throwing a few thousands more into the mix making decisions...with NO criteria or guidelines ....how does that fix it? So, I take it then that you believe that the Overwhelming Majority of people in the audience at 'DCI' contests are mommies, daddies, nannas, papaws, girlfriends, boyfriends, other friends and family of current performing members. That they are not qualified to make what you consider to be proper musical and visual evaluations. And this is because they are mainly there to see their kid in their specific performing ensemble, with only a minimal interest in the other units or the overall activity, and they have even less knowledge of proper musical and visual aesthetics than say the Aflac Duck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 So, I take it then that you believe that the Overwhelming Majority of people in the audience at 'DCI' contests are mommies, daddies, nannas, papaws, girlfriends, boyfriends, other friends and family of current performing members. That they are not qualified to make what you consider to be proper musical and visual evaluations. And this is because they are mainly there to see their kid in their specific performing ensemble, with only a minimal interest in the other units or the overall activity, and they have even less knowledge of proper musical and visual aesthetics than say the Aflac Duck. i think the duck judges GE. voice sounds familiar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornTeacher Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 (edited) So, I take it then that you believe that the Overwhelming Majority of people in the audience at 'DCI' contests are mommies, daddies, nannas, papaws, girlfriends, boyfriends, other friends and family of current performing members. That they are not qualified to make what you consider to be proper musical and visual evaluations. And this is because they are mainly there to see their kid in their specific performing ensemble, with only a minimal interest in the other units or the overall activity, and they have even less knowledge of proper musical and visual aesthetics than say the Aflac Duck. Props to he who invariably is the very FIRST person to draw the Aflac duck into a DCP discussion. You've inspired me; my mission in life is to search for places in which I can cite the Geico Gecko. Edited March 14, 2014 by HornTeacher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 (edited) So, I take it then that you believe that the Overwhelming Majority of people in the audience at 'DCI' contests are mommies, daddies, nannas, papaws, girlfriends, boyfriends, other friends and family of current performing members. That they are not qualified to make what you consider to be proper musical and visual evaluations. And this is because they are mainly there to see their kid in their specific performing ensemble, with only a minimal interest in the other units or the overall activity, and they have even less knowledge of proper musical and visual aesthetics than say the Aflac Duck. yeah thats it Edited March 14, 2014 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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