Change to Judging

[perc2100]

Finally. Its about time. Now let the fans vote for their favorite Drum Corps using their cell phones & make that count for 5% of the score.

So, so disagree with this. Fan Vote is cool, and I agree that DCI should use it for shows; but I think the fan vote should be a separate award. Make it a decent cash-prize, on top of a trophy or something, and make it worthwhile for corps to want it (i.e. something more substantial than the goofy Disney award they used to have). But making it part of the actual sheets wouldn't work, IMO. And I don't think there's anything wrong with keeping them separate. In 2010, for example, Blue Devils were without a doubt the best corps on the field and should've been rightly rewarded for their great design & performance. If, say, Madison Scouts were the fan favorite that year (I honestly don't remember, and it's likely a bit difficult to "quantify" fan favorite), then even though their design was well below Top 5, and their performance was well below Top 5, they should still be rightly recognized for their popularity. Keeping them separate, IMO, is the way to go (though ideally we would have more years like 2008 when the DCI Champion with a superior performance & design to its competitors is also the fan favorite).

[Lincoln]

If they want judges to view more like audience members, how about getting rid of the corps' video explanations to judges preseason? Let them try to puzzle out what in the world is going on in some of the shows, just like the rest of us.

Mike

I come here often yet in many ways I'm hidden under a rock and have no idea what goes on.

Do corps really do this?

I'm sure some of the videos come across like David Lynch's Mulholland Drive.....it must be art because I really have no idea what is going on.

[perc2100]

well some would say WE dont...judges do...others who need to judge will always be in or out of the perspection of the actual judge or even the person next to them..............I think when judging is involved spectators as well as those directly involved will NEVER quite understand or agree . The skating world is going through the exact same thing at the moment.

And just as appropriately, the rubric on the Effect sheets TELLS you what should be recognized as achievement. Judges are trained to evaluate groups based on the criteria on the sheets, and then put that into practice at competitions. I totally agree that spectators will never quite understand the sheets, mostly because they're not trained (or, bluntly, paid) to understand the sheets. Even former MMs think they should understand the sheets because of their experience, but all MMs are trained on his how to perform a 15 minute show with awesome technique & fundamentals: i.e. not trained on judging minutia/criteria on any given GE sheet. Fans/members know what we LIKE but that doesn't necessarily fit the criteria of the sheets.

[perc2100]

I come here often yet in many ways I'm hidden under a rock and have no idea what goes on.

Do corps really do this?

I'm sure some of the videos come across like David Lynch's Mulholland Drive.....it must be art because I really have no idea what is going on.

1) I would LOVE to see a drum corps-produced informational video directed in the style of any David Lynch film! Imagine how much fun Cadets "Angels vs Demons" informational vid would be Lynch'ian style!!

2) if you don't think MULHOLLAND DRIVE is art, that's a shame. Like/dislike, understand/not understand (and FWIW few people, if any, understand Lynch all of the time) the film, it's pretty undeniable that the film has an interesting vision and is indeed art (to put it lightly).

[Lincoln]

1) I would LOVE to see a drum corps-produced informational video directed in the style of any David Lynch film! Imagine how much fun Cadets "Angels vs Demons" informational vid would be Lynch'ian style!!

2) if you don't think MULHOLLAND DRIVE is art, that's a shame. Like/dislike, understand/not understand (and FWIW few people, if any, understand Lynch all of the time) the film, it's pretty undeniable that the film has an interesting vision and is indeed art (to put it lightly).

I don't think it's art and I don't find it a shame at all.

Edited March 11, 2014 by LincolnV

[perc2100]

Personally I like the change and I hope this is a stepping stone to a bigger and better change to judging maybe within the next couple years or so

I'd kind of love to see an Overall Effect change, just for fun. I think it would potentially run the risk of shows not be rewarded for their true value; if you're looking at music AND visual at the same time, you're likely going to miss the nuances of both. I'd be OK having one GE music, one GE vis, and one overall GE (instead of four total GE judges: maybe two overall GE judges to average overall effect). It would be cool if this was the beginning of fairly radical sheet redesign

[BigW]

Is this like the Reeses commercial from the 80's where one person bangs into another and their chocolate and peanut butter mix?

"You put GE Visual in the GE Music!"

"You put GE Music in the GE Visual!"

Show coordination is/should considered in both captions, with a logical emphasis on music or visual aspects. If the pieces don't fit together, the effect judges need to discuss it. '94 Blue Knights comes to mind, brilliant book and drill that never truly interconnected with one another and left the viewer with a nagging and rather disturbing feeling something wasn't quite right with the program.

[MikeD]

Show coordination is/should considered in both captions, with a logical emphasis on music or visual aspects. If the pieces don't fit together, the effect judges need to discuss it. '94 Blue Knights comes to mind, brilliant book and drill that never truly interconnected with one another and left the viewer with a nagging and rather disturbing feeling something wasn't quite right with the program.

Maybe that was the intended feeling, in which case they were wildly successful!

[N.E. Brigand]

Maybe that was the intended feeling, in which case they were wildly successful!

How do the sheets deal with this sort of problem? If the corps tell the judges in the pre-season videos lately mentioned, "We are trying to create a show that looks, sounds, and feels like a real mess", how are the judges supposed to respond?

[MisterA]

I don't really foresee this changing scores at all. However if it did, I would think it would be more change towards the lower placing corps. Audience response is rather difficult to judge, especially on the higher achieving corps with huge crowds in attendance. You see more varied responses from corps like Jersey Surf and Coits. While people usually seem to enjoy their shows, people usually don't go wild over them. Surf had the crowd going wild a couple of seasons ago, and Colts the same year with their fantastic soloist. I feel like these corps would be the ones who could benefit from the judging sheets, if they do end up making any difference at all.

Someone else mentioned shows like BD's Dada show. People really seemed to dislike/hate this show, and yet it was rewarded on the performance level. I personally liked this show a lot, even if it wasn't one of my favorite BD shows. What it seems like to me is that people hated the fact it was winning more than the fact they disliked the show. If this show had been placing 6th, instead of 1st, I really think more people would have actually enjoyed this show. I think what frustrated people more was the fact a show they didn't care very much for, was beating shows they really enjoyed a lot. I have the feeling if the judges had put that show in 6th, a lot of people would be saying it was a very interesting show, and were surprised it didn't place a little bit higher.