Oh Woe is Me - Blue Knights

[MikeN]

My kids, one of whom is in a band program right now, watched the 2010 finals with me, and rated Avian far and away as their favorite program. And for what it's worth, I thought the Folk Song show was absolutely crown-engaging. Surprisingly, I also found that I very much liked their show last year, too, after everything I'd heard online about it.

Mike

[jimwolf359]

Europa, Folk Song, Avian are among my favorite BK shows. Last year's show was cool too. And Jeremy, I though the 2000 show was stellar and engaging. Takes guts to put a show like that on the field.

[BRASSO]

The simple answer to the question of competitive inertia is that except for Carolina Crown no Corps move up very much beyond their DCI station in life. Why ? , ...well because there is an established pecking order of accepted tradition whereby lower corps talent feed into the rosters of the higher placing Corps their best marcher talent each and every year. Additionally, The top show design Corps staffs have remained intact pretty much since The Beatles broke up. The marchers from the Scholastic Band world only want to march with what they perceive to be the Beautiful People's ( top tier ) Corps. Thats just the reality here.

You want your Corps ( any Corps, not just BK ) to move up in DCI ? Convince your vets in your Corps that you are not in a " Stepping Stone Corps " ....that you are a " Final Destination Corps ". And that your Corps is special.. that they are unique... that they are family... and that they will stick together for one another. You accomplish that, and you will move up in placement in the future as you'll retain your best marcher talent who feel like they are in a Corps family... and you'll find also that other talented staffers from other Corps will likely find that the culture in your Corps attractive and will want to be part of breaking thru that glass ceiling and will move heaven and earth to become a part of a Corps that they believe is fully committed to excellence throughout its organization. You do that, and you have a shot, imo. Absent that, you can just about forget about moving up thru the perennially slotted pecking order, as the top 3 or 4 Corps are going to be a magnet for other lower placing Corps marchers just as they have always been.

Edited June 6, 2014 by BRASSO

[GUARDLING]

The simple answer to the question of competitive inertia is that except for Carolina Crown no Corps move up very much beyond their DCI station in life. Why ? , ...well because their is an established pecking order of accepted tradition whereby lower corps talent feed into the rosters of the higher placing Corps their best marcher talent. Additionally, The top show design Corps staffs have remained intact pretty much since The Beatles broke up. The marchers from the Band world on;y want to march with what they consider to be the Beautiful People Corps.

You want to move up in DCI ? Convince your vets in your Corps that you are not a " stepping stone Corps " ....that you are a " Desination Corps ". And that your Corps is special.. that they are unique... that they are family. You accomplish that, and you will move up in placement... and you'll find also that other staffers from other Corps will likely find that the culture in your Corps attractive and will want to be part of breaking thru that glass ceiling and will move heaven and earth to become a part of a Corps that is fully committed to excellance throughout its organization. You do that, and you have a shot, imo.

I couldnt agree more with your statement . Now , then it becomes the corps responsibility to come through with the promise. That's the difference we had growing up in the activity > BITD we spent many years in one corps and hopefully reached our goals, some did some didnt. God I remember the 3 year plan for success and at the end of year 2 the plan changed to another 3 year plan...lol. Today kids dont spend as much time in corps as we did , so it is very different. One has to convince a new member they are part of something bigger and will be a part of the future success maybe even beyond their years. Hard to do, especially since because of instant gratification many want today, the cost alone many feel they are paying for the best of the best and if thats what their money buys thats what they are taking.

I totally agree if those lower corps didnt lose members every year and staff there might be a different landscape at the top. BUT that doesnt happen. So here we are

[cowtown]

The simple answer to the question of competitive inertia is that except for Carolina Crown no Corps move up very much beyond their DCI station in life. Why ? , ...well because there is an established pecking order of accepted tradition whereby lower corps talent feed into the rosters of the higher placing Corps their best marcher talent each and every year. Additionally, The top show design Corps staffs have remained intact pretty much since The Beatles broke up. The marchers from the Scholastic Band world only want to march with what they cperceive to be the Beautiful People's Corps.

You want to move up in DCI ? Convince your vets in your Corps that you are not a " Stepping Stone Corps " ....that you are a " Desination Corps ". And that your Corps is special.. that they are unique... that they are family. You accomplish that, and you will move up in placement as you'll retain your best marcher talent... and you'll find also that other staffers from other Corps will likely find that the culture in your Corps attractive and will want to be part of breaking thru that glass ceiling and will move heaven and earth to become a part of a Corps that is fully committed to excellance throughout its organization. You do that, and you have a shot, imo. Absent that, you can forget about it, as the top Corps are going to be a magnet as they have always been.

Perhaps... but BK could ekk out a spot or so by ditching things like the tambourine features or blue ball

Wait, perhaps there was a symbolism I missed in the blue ball. Frustration. Lack of movement in placement, maybe they should drag the blue ball across the field for all their shows

[Tricia-A BD/BK Mom]

Europa, Folk Song, Avian are among my favorite BK shows. Last year's show was cool too. And Jeremy, I though the 2000 show was stellar and engaging. Takes guts to put a show like that on the field.

This makes me smile! My son preformed in 2000 with the Blue Knights and he was on staff for the three shows mentioned. My daughter performed guard and my son was the visual caption head for "Folk Song" so, of course, that was the best season for me.

[philipmartin]

I can tell you as BK Alumni (Pit 93-95) that BK has been down the whole "entertainment" road before. In 91 and 92, BK placed 9th with shows that were well performed, but maybe lacking in the "wow" department. They also picked up the "Blue Ninth" moniker in the process. So in 1993 they decided to shake things up with a show containing the music of Star Trek and a 5 minute drum solo (which was killer by the way). Guess what happened, we dropped to 10th, and were #### lucky to score that high. Then in 1994, we go back to basics with not the most exciting show, but again, a well performed show. The result? Tied for 7th. Here comes 1995. Instead of sticking with the formula that works, the designers decided they wanted to be more entertaining. What do they come up with? Disco. The result? Blue Knights watching finals. The same scenario played out in 2000 and 2001, this time Blue Knights are out of finals for the next 3 years. The moral of the story is, stick with what you know and what you do well.

[jjeffeory]

Threads like this make me laugh because some people have no idea what it takes to build a drum corps.

To the original poster, I'm not sure what sort of beef you have with the Blue Knights, but it obviously seems as if you have some underlying issue with the corps. Why aren't you saying the same thing about Boston Crusaders? The Colts? The Blue Stars?

You've asked the question "Why haven't the Blue Knights broken into the top 6 lately", yet couldn't this question be asked to about 15 other drum corps? Why are you targeting the Blue Knights?

It is SO hard to break into the top 6 with the way that drum corps is today. I truly don't think you can use placement to determine the success of a corps. The Blue Knights could have the most entertaining and polished show that they've ever had, but if 7 or 8 other corps are still better than them, then the Blue Knights will appear to have ended up in the same spot. However, the performers/staff of the Blue Knights will know just how much they have grown, and just because it isn't reflected in terms of a "top 6 finish" doesn't mean the corps isn't strong.

After last year, I am SO optimistic for the Blue Knights. One of the best 10th place shows, in my opinion. Seems the staff is finally starting to gel. I believe the visual staff from last year is still there this year (does anyone know who that is, by the way?), and know that the guard and brass staff are still there. The percussion staff has been upgraded.

Anyways, simply put, I think your comments don't carry much weight and I am not sure why you have this opinion. Seems you are just wanting to start trouble. Not sure what kind of "beef" you have with the Blue Knights.

I think it's hard to break into the top 6 most years, it doesn't matter how corps are today. I don't think it has anything to do with "today". Just sayin'.

[Ghost]

The simple answer to the question of competitive inertia is that except for Carolina Crown no Corps move up very much beyond their DCI station in life. Why ? , ...well because there is an established pecking order of accepted tradition whereby lower corps talent feed into the rosters of the higher placing Corps their best marcher talent each and every year. Additionally, The top show design Corps staffs have remained intact pretty much since The Beatles broke up. The marchers from the Scholastic Band world only want to march with what they perceive to be the Beautiful People's ( top tier ) Corps. Thats just the reality here.

You want your Corps ( any Corps, not just BK ) to move up in DCI ? Convince your vets in your Corps that you are not in a " Stepping Stone Corps " ....that you are a " Final Destination Corps ". And that your Corps is special.. that they are unique... that they are family... and that they will stick together for one another. You accomplish that, and you will move up in placement in the future as you'll retain your best marcher talent who feel like they are in a Corps family... and you'll find also that other talented staffers from other Corps will likely find that the culture in your Corps attractive and will want to be part of breaking thru that glass ceiling and will move heaven and earth to become a part of a Corps that they believe is fully committed to excellence throughout its organization. You do that, and you have a shot, imo. Absent that, you can just about forget about moving up thru the perennially slotted pecking order, as the top 3 or 4 Corps are going to be a magnet for other lower placing Corps marchers just as they have always been.

Having a large war chest might also be a need to get the perceived better staff. Just speculating that George Z. may have stayed with 27 if they could out bid Garfield. If this is a wild guess at least the point is you need the funds to hire/keep better staff.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Ghost

[Allegro89]

Allegro - if a message like this ruffles a few feathers, so be it. I find BK's consistent output of sleep-indicuing, overly-cerebral shows to be condescending and offputing to the listener.

It's not fair to say the Blue Knights are failing - as many have stated, they are perennial finalists and that counts for a lot. This is old news though - why not turn your sights on the next evolution of your program and go for the top tier? What's holding them back? What are the other corps doing that BK isn't? And why is it taking so long to have this conversation and come up with some solutions?

When I marched in 2000, we were within a point or two of SCV throughout the entire season. Sometimes, we'd finish in time to cach a glimpse of their show and I remember thinking...."man, their show is so much more interesting and exciting than what we're putting out. What gives?"

I keep holding out for that moment when I say to myself, "yes - that was an exciting show. I could see that show among the Cavaliers, Cadets, and Blue Devils of the world."

More important than "taking on a difficult topic" or "making a statement" in some intellectual way should be the simple idea that a show should entertain. For one reason or another, this concept seems to elude the mainstays at BK.

Tell me, then, what the answers are? You are asking "what's holding them back?" "why not turn your sights on the next level?". Do you honestly think the Blue Knights organization doesn't WANT that?

You're ridiculous to think that things happen at the snap of a finger. It's almost as if you are taking offense with the fact that BK has only been a bottom 6 corps. How about you celebrate your corps for their achievements?

By the way, if you are so concerned about your corps, what are you doing to "fix" this? Get a music degree and go be on the brass staff if you think you have all of the answers.