HornTeacher Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 (edited) (Wait...let me put on my chain mail....ok)... Yes, I undeniably support the idea that it is far more enjoyable to win than it is to not win. But has Drum Corps (or DCI Junior Drum Corps, to be more exact) become an extension of the Dale Earnhardt philosophy of competition? Are we approaching the point (or even passed it) where 2nd place is nothing more than 1st loser? I have many facetious bones in my body...but none of them are of issue at this moment in time. I am not asking this sarcastically; I am not asking this rhetorically: I merely and simply ask: has DCI Junior Drum Corps become a situation whereby, after an entire summer of monetary and physical sacrifice, gym floors, endless interstate exits passing by at 3:00 A.M. in the comfort of a seat not much more than 13-14 inches wide, with, more often than not, a seat-mate who (if one were to be totally honest, is most probably in a condition no more severe than one's own self) could probably use about 30 minutes in a shower, all the while looking forward to that 8:00 A.M. wake-up call (no matter the time that the corps reaches it's final destination) for yet another 8-to-10-to-12 hour day -- all for the purpose of finishing not only 2nd at the Annual Drums Along the Great Bumf*ck invitational, but also at the Grand Poohbah International at the end of the season...all to be told "Congratulations...you're the FIRST LOSER!!!!"?? Now...throw in the reality of returning home, punching up Drum Corps Planet to catch up on the latest spins, diatribes, and Platonian discussions (which, even as a 20 or 21-year-old you might not be allowed (read: trusted) to do during the months of active participation -- only to find out there are many individuals who last marched in a Junior Corps 20, 30, or even 40-or-more years ago, or never marched but have seen many, many shows, or have never seen a show in person, but feel compelled (and justified) in speaking due only to the fact that they have witnessed 45 seconds of a taped mid-January practice of the "YouTube Patriots" D&BC -- all bemoaning your recent "FIRST LOSER" designation, and predicting the coming Apocalypse if your Corps doesn't hire the greatest staff ever assembled (even if 3/4 of them are dead), a design team that would out-God God in the design of the Universe, and find the 80 single best brass musicians who ever picked up a horn. Now...let's say you marched with the 17th place group that season. Are YOU going to want to go through that all over again???? Edited June 23, 2014 by HornTeacher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (Wait...let me put on my chain mail....ok)... Yes, I undeniably support the idea that it is far more enjoyable to win than it is to not win. But has Drum Corps (or DCI Junior Drum Corps, to be more exact) become an extension of the Dale Earnhardt philosophy of competition? Are we approaching the point (or even passed it) where 2nd place is nothing more than 1st loser? I have many facetious bones in my body...but none of them are of issue at this moment in time. I am not asking this sarcastically; I am not asking this rhetorically: I merely and simply ask: has DCI Junior Drum Corps become a situation whereby, after an entire summer of monetary and physical sacrifice, gym floors, endless interstate exits passing by at 3:00 A.M. in the comfort of a seat not much more than 13-14 inches wide, with, more often than not, a seat-mate who (if one were to be totally honest, is most probably in a condition no more severe than one's own self) could probably use about 30 minutes in a shower, all the while looking forward to that 8:00 A.M. wake-up call (no matter the time that the corps reaches it's final destination) for yet another 8-to-10-to-12 hour day -- all for the purpose of finishing not only 2nd at the Annual Drums Along the Great Bumf*ck invitational, but also at the Grand Poohbah International at the end of the season...all to be told "Congratulations...you're the FIRST LOSER!!!!"?? Now...throw in the reality of returning home, punching up Drum Corps Planet to catch up on the latest spins, diatribes, and Platonian discussions (which, even as a 20 or 21-year-old you might not be allowed (read: trusted) to do during the months of active participation -- only to find out there are many individuals who last marched in a Junior Corps 20, 30, or even 40-or-more years ago, or never marched but have seen many, many shows, or have never seen a show in person, but feel compelled (and justified) in speaking due only to the fact that they have witnessed 45 seconds of a taped mid-January practice of the "YouTube Patriots" D&BC -- all bemoaning your recent "FIRST LOSER" designation, and predicting the coming Apocalypse if your Corps doesn't hire the greatest staff ever assembled (even if 3/4 of them are dead), a design team that would out-God God in the design of the Universe, and find the 80 single best brass musicians who ever picked up a horn. Now...let's say you marched with the 17th place group that season. Are YOU going to want to go through that all over again???? this all depends who you talk to and what their personal goals were....lets say a corps was 2nd to BD for several years in a row. YOU bet they walk away feeling alot different than someone who was say in 7th and worked their way up to 3rd. Does this mean a corps below 1st wasnt successful? of course not and the staff I know mainly want member to reach their absolute potential , whatever that might mean. You can be20th and just going to 19th may be a very big deal and you can be a corps in 13th over and over and feel they arent succeeding..Depends on many things. There is alot to learn from the experience more than the competition BUT it is a competition and someone loses the prize so to speak BUT that doesnt mean they lose...JMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleveland1 Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 I never marched, so this is just a fan perspective. We go into each season with an expectation of who could win it all, who could medal, and who could make finals. As a fan i am not disappointed in Boston for not gunning for gold anually. I look forward to the show and i look forward to seeing if they jump cavaliers or whoever may be near them. But i don't expect a BAC title run. For the corps at the top, cadets, BD, Crown now, its an expectation to be in that competition for gold or to medal. Anything less is a disappointment. These corps also draw the top talent so i doubt they will be discouraged for future seasons from going for it again. The group I am worried about is the 15-11 group. Colts came so close in 09 and so far its taken them until now to have another show to challenge to get into the top 12. Academy came close too then dropped off. The worry i have is making finals is the goal for these corps, and most will end up with sour tastes in their mouths. Maybe even trying out for consistant finalists instead of trying to stick around if they aren't confident in the corps. Every year we have new bottom corps in snd out. Of course the cut off is somewhere. Tldr: The corps with championship expectations are few. No one hates on the corps members, especially not the younger ones in weaker corps. Once people get past the desire to have a good finishing placement, the journey and education become the primary goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Design. You have to design shows that are competitive (easier said than done)... and the designs (especially the early ones) need to market strengths and avoid weaknesses. Then you become in demand for talented new recruits. It all snowballs from there (including the money). Most corps fall out because design falls out first... and most rise because design rises to a contending level. Simple answer is to choose to design and compete with corps that are where you want to be... not with the ones that are where you are or where you were. To add to that, Bill Cook said something to the effect of: * have a constant revenue stream for your corps: something other than member fees and bingo that is a stable, consistent money-maker for the organization. Star used a busing/travel company that took awhile to really start profiting enough to funnel into the organization * hire staff who can teach the kids how to "get on and off the bus:" teach them really strong fundamentals. The kids have to walk before they can (jazz) run. * design a show that is not only effective and sufficiently competitive (depending on level of competition a corps hopes to achieve), but must be within the capabilities of the membership. The staff also has to know how to get the most of their performers in the time they have. I've seen great teachers who just don't have a great sense of keeping to a production schedule, and their groups continually under-achieved because of this. Conversely I've seen great teachers who could keep an amazing production schedule and get the most of their students, but they couldn't design well enough to get to the next level. This is the part that is extremely difficult that most just flat-out don't know how to achieve (I certainly don't). I think sometimes a corps is close and maybe even the planets align and the pieces fall into place (I would say Scouts 1988 is a good example). There are so many aspects to running/maintaining a high-achieving organization, and if even one of the puzzle pieces is lacking a group might have success for a short period of time but won't be able to sustain it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornTeacher Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) Guard and Cleveland: That was exactly the point I was trying to make. It's wholly my fault for not making it clear. But yes...I am a firm believer that for some groups, a 2nd, a 3rd, or even a 4th is "their" championship. No, that isn't a lowering of standards. Yes...sometimes that kind of finish is far higher than the kids could ever have dreamed -- yet they did it. And therein lies the satisfaction -- both for me, but more importantly, for them. And also therein also lies the satisfaction of the teacher. When your kids realize that they went farther then they could have ever dreamed...and the gigantic smiles of satisfaction accompanying the tears of joy...man...sometimes I want to ask the bus driver to pull over so that I can leave the bus and have MY 30 seconds for myself. Yeah...I'm a wimp. Big deal. Edited June 24, 2014 by HornTeacher 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) Guard and Cleveland: That was exactly the point I was trying to make. It's wholly my fault for not making it clear. But yes...I am a firm believer that for some groups, a 2nd, a 3rd, or even a 4th is "their" championship. No, that isn't a lowering of standards. Yes...sometimes that kind of finish is far higher than the kids could ever have dreamed -- yet they did it. And therein lies the satisfaction -- both for me, but more importantly, for them. And also therein also lies the satisfaction of the teacher. When your kids realize that they went farther then they could have ever dreamed...and the gigantic smiles of satisfaction accompanying the tears of joy...man...sometimes I want to ask the bus driver to pull over so that I can leave the bus and have MY 30 seconds for myself. Yeah...I'm a wimp. Big deal. agree............................................not the wimp part......lol Edited June 24, 2014 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
va9590jm Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Sometimes making finals is like winning it all. Recently see: Crossmen 2012 and Troopers 2009 just to name a couple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCorps Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Unlike other activities, not every group has the same mission. Pioneer doesn't want to win DCI. If the Blue Devils place second, they "lose" DCI. Championship caliber programs in ANY activity take winning seriously and there are things you learn in the context of attempting to win that you don't learn in a program where improvement is the goal. Not better things. Not worse things. DIFFERENT things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralTsoChicken Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 the board shouldn't even discuss competitive success. it should only make sure that the organization is fulfilling its mission. Scott Stewart? Is that you!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoyWonder1911 Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 But....but....but why can't MY favorite corps win????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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