Wadep66 Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 I have no allegiance to any particular corps. When my kids were in it I had a bias to the corps' they marched in but any parent would. I marched in the 70's and corps' went back and forth from show to show. Tremendous amount of flip flopping show to show. As life happened was away from the activity for many years. When I got back into the activity I noticed very little back in forth in placements. I inquired from an old drum corps friend who is well respected judge in state circuit and WGI. He indicated to me that there is a term called slotting that frequently occurs in DCI. Which is why he does not judge for DCI by the way. How is it that if there is a significant bump in a score for corps A that corps B,C,D see that bump as well. Whether at same show or across the country on the same day. This does not just happen. The aforementioned judge friend asked this very question at a DCI judges symposium and they could not give him a valid reason. You may call me cry baby, believe that it's a conspiracy or whatever you wish but from my vantage point on balance slotting or whatever term you call it happens. The activity in my opinion would strengthen and attract/bring back fans if it had an any given night scenario at the shows. That was my intent in this thread. Nothing more nothing less. Okay, but back in the day the tic system of judging very much cost the corps points for minor errors. So a corps could have a night where the judge saw something that wasn't seen the previous night and knock down the scores. Colorguard wasn't even a caption. It was based on a much more simplistic view of what corps should do. That clearly isn't the case anymore. The design and tech staff have much more to do with the quality of the corps than the corps name. Just look at percussion captions when certain folks move from one corps to another. Judging will always be questioned. I think there will be flip flopping of spots this season. When BD and Cadets and Crown and SCV and Coats meet head to head that is going to be a nail biter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanguard87 Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 (edited) Evidence please. Just to use the examples in the preceding handful of posts--in what year was Bluecoats among the best three performing corps and fail to medal? In what year were the Blue Devils the sixth-best corps and yet were gifted second? In what year did a historically 14th-15th place corps perform as well as the eighth-best corps and yet barely scrape into finals? Edited June 27, 2014 by vanguard87 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 (edited) Judging will always be questioned. I know. Some DCP'ers get really really angry when people express that they are upset with a judge, or scores or placements. Thats why I wish sometimes that the DCI sport competition was like baseball, football, basketball, hockey, Soccer. Lets face it, in baseball we don't see fans getting frustrated or upset with an umpire's call, or in basketball, football, hockey, Soccer etc fans there getting upset or angry with the refs calls. DCI is unique in that we oftentimes hear fans complain about the judges. DCI fans could take a cue from the other sports where complaining about the refs calls or the umpire calls is very, very rare to the point that its almost totally non existent in these sports' fanbases. Edited June 27, 2014 by BRASSO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 (edited) Evidence please. Just to use the examples in the preceding handful of posts--in what year was Bluecoats among the best three performing corps and fail to medal? In what year were the Blue Devils the sixth-best corps and yet were gifted second? In what year did a historically 14th-15th place corps perform as well as the eighth-best corps and yet barely scrape into finals? Just for sake of argument, I'll give this a try. Now the thing is that the judges are who decides what's what for the official record, BUT if there's slotting, then it's rigged; circular argument ensues... -in what year was Bluecoats among the best three performing corps and fail to medal? Bluecoats 2007. Beat all other corps at one point in that year, but ended up in 7th. In what year were the Blue Devils the sixth-best corps and yet were gifted second? Maybe 2002 Jazz:Music Made in America? That show was disappointing and they were rewriting it all year. I don't feel that it really ever worked, yet the still roared to 2nd place. I haven't read the whole thread carefully. Just giving a possibility. How about 2004? The SummerTrain Blues MIX was just ok, but SCV's Scheherazade was spell binding. Cadets were living WITH the Past quite well, and Apasionada 874 was pretty good. I would have put Blue Devils at least 3rd. Jonathan Holmes was their DM, and great though... How about 2001? Cadets were on fire that year and SCV's New Era Metropolis was pretty spiffy. Oh wait, Cadets got 2nd as well (ties). BD was better than Glassmen and Phantom ( though Glassmen were rockin' hard that year). I dunno, how'd I do. Probably going to be some made people. Somebody is going to say 2013. I'm sure of it. In what year did a historically 14th-15th place corps perform as well as the eighth-best corps and yet barely scrape into finals? 1990 Freelancers or and/or Boston Crusaders Boston Crusaders 1st in Prelims (11th place overall) 15th Semi-Finals Freelancers sitting around 8th place a week before finals, ended up 14th at semifinals. Oh wait, neither of them actually got into finals, they were scoring in that range the entire year only to be out of the pack in the end. Things that worked all season suddenly didn't work. I don't know, what was the year? Edited June 27, 2014 by jjeffeory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 I know. Some DCP'ers get really really angry when people express that they are upset with a judge, or scores or placements. Thats why I wish sometimes that the DCI sport competition was like baseball, football, basketball, hockey. Lets face it, in baseball we don't see fans get upset with an umpire's call, or in basketball, football, hockey, etc fans here get upset with the refs call. DCI is unique in that we oftentimes hear fans complain about the judges. DCI fans could take a cue from the other sports where complaining about the refs or the umpire calls is almost totally non existent. You don't watch sports much or read comments on sports blogs do you? It is literally all complaining about how biased or bad refs are. Watch a Duke vs UNC basketball game at Duke and then go online and read about the hundreds of people complaining about refs. This is all normal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralTsoChicken Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 In what year were the Blue Devils the sixth-best corps and yet were gifted second? Maybe 2002 Jazz:Music Made in America? That show was disappointing and they were rewriting it all year. I don't feel that it really ever worked, yet the still roared to 2nd place. I haven't read the whole thread carefully. Just giving a possibility. Who was going to beat them? '02, outside of Cavaliers, was a dreadful year of drum corps. The smelly cadets? Boston? Regiment? LOL, no, BD was solidly the second best group that year. No doubt about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 (edited) You don't watch sports much or read comments on sports blogs do you? It is literally all complaining about how biased or bad refs are. Watch a Duke vs UNC basketball game at Duke and then go online and read about the hundreds of people complaining about refs. No Way!... Only in DCI do we have fans complain about the judges. I watch a lot of these sports ( well ok, not as much as Quidditch, but still ), and I don't see fans complaining about the umps calls and the refs calls in these other sports . My guess, it happens just when Duke and UNC play, and you personally see some of it on rare occasions there just in Cameron . Edited June 27, 2014 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 No Way !! If you were trying to convey sarcasm in your OP, you may want to learn how to convey it better in text. Otherwise both you and me end up looking stupid :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Who was going to beat them? '02, outside of Cavaliers, was a dreadful year of drum corps. The smelly cadets? Boston? Regiment? LOL, no, BD was solidly the second best group that year. No doubt about it. Good point. I went back and looked at the show titles so I could remind myself about them. Maybe the Cadets, but that was Americana to the max with a fire truck scene ( at finals?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoyWonder1911 Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 I thought Boston Crusaders had a pretty good show in 2002... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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