There's a certain corps that frustrates me

[bmjfelts1988]

Almost every year, and this one so far especially. I hold out hope they will be more competitive but am usually disappointed...I mean just me venting here, but figure it out and do something about it. I'm sorry, but for me huddling in the 11th to 14th range just isn't acceptable...other corps have done it, so no excuses.

Ok, I feel better...not really.

History repeats itself and for Spirit (which is who I think you are referring to), seemingly about once every 10 years. Long streak of finals placements from the late 70s to late 80s, barely slipped out of finals for a year in 89 , came back in for a year then were out for 12 years. Made it back in for 2002, fell out for a year in 04 but got back in for a few more years 05-07 then fell out again for another several years and returned again in 2011............fffffffffor a few more years then appear to be slipping out again in 2014.

Nothing new to see here....

Edited June 27, 2014 by bmjfelts1988

[Tad_MMA]

......... And then you get to "How difficult is their show? That brass run is difficult, but is it clean? How clean?"

All of those are objective.

In fact, I would go as far as saying that 60% of the score is absolutely objective-based.

Of course GE is subjective, more or less, but comprises 40% of the score. Why? Why make a mostly subjective part of scoring such a huge part of the score?

Interesting. Some history here: when the Garfield Cadets were attempting to explain George Zingali's wacky drill of 1982, the M&M judges (ticking on the field) weren't getting it. Since they'd never seen the likes of this kind of abstract, organic movement, if they didn't get it, it must have been wrong. So, the Cadets' staff tried this: "Put on your blinders and think about what you can see. Wouldn't you agree that with the Blue Devils (the marching standard at that time), you're sampling eight kids?" "Yes," the judges agreed. "Well, with the Cadets, in that same frame, you're sampling 32 kids. So, if you think you see an error, it's one of 32---not one of 8." They were MUCH faster, and their intervals were usually smaller so they could, at any time, push open into those large forms. They got some judges to buy into that (which then makes performance more SUBjective). Add to that, the famous (early 80's) Cadet philosophy: "Wouldn't you agree that HERE (hand at chin height) is where most corps set their goals?" "Yes," judges said." "Then wouldn't you agree that HERE (hand at top of head) is where we set OUR goals?" "Yes," judges said. "Well then, if WE achieve 80% of our goals (hand to nose height), can't you see we've already beaten them?"

That worked for a while. The judges rewarded difficulty, demand and exposure. It doesn't work nearly as well today. I think the last time a corps was truly rewarded for difficulty was Cadets 1997. That show was a little beyond the capacity of talent (more so because of design rather than talent), yet it was COMPELLING enough to win GE over the *extremely, extremely* clean Blue Devils. There was just enough achievement to merit the reward.

[jwillis35]

How long will it take for the cavaliers to not be included anymore? Yes they have 7 championships. but 5 of them came over a 7 year span. We can probably count them out for this year's championship already, so this will make 8 years without a cavaliers title, and the third without a medal.

Good points, but that kind of question is tough to answer. Who knows, in the next 10 years the Cavaliers may catch fire and win 3 more titles with 3 more 2nd or 3rd place finishes, and a few top 5s. So 10 years from now we could be looking back on things and say, wow, Cavaliers have 10 titles, even more 2nd and 3rd place finishes, and they will have done that over a period of 30 to 35 years if you go back to 1990. For now, yes, they do seem to have dropped off the Big 3 podium a bit, but I love their show this year, and it could be top 5 when all is said and done. You're right though, no top 3 for them this year.

[jwillis35]

While true, a great brass line does not by itself, make for a DCI Champion. Frankly I see little resemblance between Crown and Star of Indiana, other than the fact both had fine brass lines. I see far more dissimilarities between Star and Crown than similarities between the two. BD has more far similarities with Star of Indiana in my view than does Crown with Star. Star was controversial in its offerings near the end, similar to BD of late. I have never found Crown to be as controversial in its shows as BD and Star together have been viewed. I don't recall Crown ever being booed for example ( as BD and Star have been on a few occasions )But... lets not get sidetracked and go off on a subject discussion the OP here probably does not intend for us to discuss at any length. So.... back to our regularly scheduled programming.......

Really good point here, Brasso. Obviously, I think drum corps aficionados see the similarity in Crown to Star when it comes to brass. No doubt there. Similar sound and demand and power. Other than that, Star was a different kind of beast. They had more in common with the Garfield Cadets with their 80s offerings, and then from 90-93 they really became a unique entity the likes of which we had not seen. Their offerings were controversial and incredibly well performed. The BD of today is more like that Star 90s corps. Solid across all captions. Of course, BD has always been solid in every caption, and so was Star in those days. That is something that today's Crown is still working toward. Star's drum lines in 91 and 93 were amazing. And their marching technique...the GOLD standard. Why do you think the Blue Devils wanted Todd Ryan so badly once Star left the activity in 94?