cajal Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 So..... Quote: "Unfortunately, gone are the days where the likes of Dr. Bernie Baggs, Rod Goodhart, Paul Wojtena, Dave Lorenzi, Shirlee Whitcomb, Judy Tomko and a host of others truly cared about being accurate about those scores they placed on a sheet. Gone are the days when folks like Karson Klund, Dallas Niermeyer, Gene Monterastelli, and Bill Doyle called a spade a spade and their score reflected the actual quality of a groups performance of a particular day or night." From the bold text, I assume that 'accurate' means that they were numbers you personally agreed with? If not, how do you define 'accurate' in a subjectively judged activity? Maybe they were totally objective... oh wait, that's impossible. In any case, you must have a handle on what all of the numbers should be. Congrats, you're an invaluable resource... and one DCP should rely upon often. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drillwatcher Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Yeah that's exactly that I inferred as well. The OP said I would think calling judging mediocre = disagreeing with ranking/ratings. I guess if the OP is saying they're happy with things but don't like the judges I don't get what the muddled point is I believe looking at all the ties, both sub caption and overall caption, the number of .1 differences suggest the judging is not very good. New people wish to stay around so they will do the status quo. You can see what has happened to people who do make decisions lately. Change the leadership and it will be a start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
actucker Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I believe looking at all the ties, both sub caption and overall caption, the number of .1 differences suggest the judging is not very good. New people wish to stay around so they will do the status quo. You can see what has happened to people who do make decisions lately. Change the leadership and it will be a start. No the sub caption ties and close scores suggest that competition is very close, which is absolutely the case. It suggests absolutely nothing about the quality of the judging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deftguy Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Just the DCI mantra: "Marching Music's Major League" implies a certain level of elitism, that is well earned in spite of the views of some fans who long for 'the good old days' (which were never quite as good as we might think). Unfortunately "Marching Music's Major League" is a self given title, not one that is well earned. If somebody else out of the activity gave it this title, it would be an earned title. This is a marketing phrase that DCI uses to distinguish itself from the top marching bands in this country. I like to keep it real. As far as the good ole days not being as good as we might think...that is your thoughts, not mine. The good ole days were definitely good...real good. But that was yesterday, long gone, never to be revisited again except in our heads and memories. I wouldn't not play it down just to push up what is going on today. Today does not really need that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drillwatcher Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 No the sub caption ties and close scores suggest that competition is very close, which is absolutely the case. It suggests absolutely nothing about the quality of the judging. Sub caption ties are a non-decision. You must be a drum judge from this season..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deftguy Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 People say the exact same thing about any show they don't like. Different people like different things. Saying that the BD shows that have won in the past few years aren't effective is simply a refusal to acknowledge what's going on on the field. Not exactly. Being effective to the judges is one thing. Being effective to the crowd is another. You can acknowledge what is on the field without exactly liking it. From a technical standpoint, you cannot deny BD. From a purely entertainment perspective, meh...I would rather have a banana/chocolate smoothie. However, the Louisiana Stars are no where nearly as proficient as BD, but their show just knocks me out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Unfortunately "Marching Music's Major League" is a self given title, not one that is well earned. If somebody else out of the activity gave it this title, it would be an earned title. This is a marketing phrase that DCI uses to distinguish itself from the top marching bands in this country. I like to keep it real. As far as the good ole days not being as good as we might think...that is your thoughts, not mine. The good ole days were definitely good...real good. But that was yesterday, long gone, never to be revisited again except in our heads and memories. I wouldn't not play it down just to push up what is going on today. Today does not really need that. in terms of judging in the past, the tic system was just as ###### subjective as what is in place now. the big difference is now, there's established criteria for the judges to follow 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
actucker Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Not exactly. Being effective to the judges is one thing. Being effective to the crowd is another. You can acknowledge what is on the field without exactly liking it. From a technical standpoint, you cannot deny BD. From a purely entertainment perspective, meh...I would rather have a banana/chocolate smoothie. However, the Louisiana Stars are no where nearly as proficient as BD, but their show just knocks me out. And yet, when shows like the ones we are discussed are being called ineffective, it is often in an argument against those shows placing higher than others. Effect is more than just entertainment value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
actucker Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Sub caption ties are a non-decision. You must be a drum judge from this season..... I agree, and in a perfect world, sub caption ties wouldn't happen. However, the one drum judge I've seen assigning sub caption ties was judging the first DCI show he's ever judged. He hasn't assigned a tie since. That being said, the point still stands. Scores are close because performance qualities are close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brichtimp Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 in terms of judging in the past, the tic system was just as ###### subjective as what is in place now. the big difference is now, there's established criteria for the judges to follow It would seem that ticks, if applied to elements like phasing and spacing, can be objective to a degree, and would potentially depress scores we are seeing in today's DCI? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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