Opinions on Uniforms for 2014--helped or hindered?

[GUARDLING]

I disagree. The uniform can affect how clean movement is read on the field or perceived from a higher vantage point. I loved Crown's uniform last year, because the stripe on the leg made their movement vocabulary more effective. It didn't have the same effect this year in my opinion.

Uniforms, color choices, head gear, flags, equipment choices are discussed in critique.

Yes, fans will have their own preferences as will the judging community, but to say that the uniform has no effect on how a corps is viewed and or judged would be false.

yup. If it didnt make a difference why would corps get rid of things like stripes on pants, white bucs with black pants, side sash lengths, and the all famous spats . One doesn't have to change but there sure as hell was a reason and the reason also came in the form of suggestions. Nothing new, for decades

Edited August 29, 2014 by GUARDLING

[xandandl]

The Cadets are a perfect example of where the uniform serves as an enhancement to showcase their excellence and a as a neon light when the excellence has yet to be achieved.

There was even serious discussions amongst their design staff and the CEO about bringing the stripe back to highlight how well the corps was moving and marching this season. George himself shared that on his Facebook and twitter accounts. That is what he said. That is what George Hopkins said.

Edited September 2, 2014 by xandandl
personal attack removed

[corpsband]

The Cadets are a perfect example of where the uniform serves as an enhancement to showcase their excellence and a as a neon light when the excellence has yet to be achieved.

There was even serious discussions amongst their design staff and the CEO about bringing the stripe back to highlight how well the corps was moving and marching this season. George himself shared that on his Facebook and twitter accounts.

[BRASSO]

Uniforms, color choices, head gear, flags, equipment choices are discussed in critique.

This is nothing new however. Judges have always discussed these things in their critiques.. including tapes of last place Corps, where the judge on the tape spoke highly favorably re. the Corps use of unis, colors. flags, equipment choices, etc along with the judges score of last place in the judges caption.

All the current Corps change Guard costumes each and every year. But where these Guards finish in Guard has virtually nothing at all to do with the choice of clothing for the Guard. Cadets don't finish in the top 3 most years based upon whether or not they have " stripes " down their pants. Cadets have finiished 1st, as well as out of the top 20... with essentially the same uni... and their placement in both cases had virtually nothing at to do with this uni. BD changes unis often. So doesn't Jersey Surf. But it matters not a wit re either Corps placements.

Edited August 29, 2014 by BRASSO

[Cappybara]

I sorta agree with brasso here. I don't think unis affect scores nearly as much as people are making them out to BUT I do think they do have an unconscious influence on judging. They can bring attention to visual dirt or cause issues in the way the percussion plays. In that aspect, yes they would affect judging. Otherwise, I highly doubt judges specifically look for the influence of unis on performance.

[mj3004]

Incidentally, one of the highest scores the North Star Drum Corps received in the '76 season was when they went out with a mishmash of borrowed uniforms from competitor Corps at the World Open after a fire destroyed their uniforms enroute to Lynn, Ma. from shows in the midwest.

The Cadets have pretty much had the same uniforms for well over half a Century. None of their placements over the years ( from the mid 20's in placements some years to 1st in other years ) had much of anything at all to do with this uniform, nor their Guard's uniform.

One look at the uniforms from all the Corps from 1st to last at the Quarterfinals this season, and we find most of them have had uniform changes, and all of them guard uniform changes over the last 12 months alone. Yet few of them changed much at all in their placements year over end. Jersey Surf went thru the single most changed uniform choice style of any Corps in recent memory. Their current 2014 unis look nothing like their Bridgemen trubute uniforms... their placements.. up or down... didn't change at all however. Zip.

Crown percussion scores have been an achilles heel for them for a few seasons, yet they have gone thru multiple changes in uniforms for their Percussion section.

It doesn't matter WHAT BD wears in uniforms, or Guard costuming. They will score high. Yet, the Mandarins Pacific Coast, Academy, etc have uniforms as appealing, if not more so, than does BD, imo.

Does it matter what duds Crown has on when the brass plays ? Of course not. Star of Indiana changed uniforms often. Did their 2nd place in '93 with the judges have anything at all with the fact their unis were different than the Cadets ? I don't think so. Spirit's choice of unis for 2014 had nothing at all to do with their scores and placements this season, imo.

It doesn't matter what the G7 Corps wear in competition. Nor what the non G7 wear in competition. Anybody that thinks scores and placements are effected by what the Corps wear these days in DCI are just kidding themselves, imo. The notion that these DCI judges, many of whom have been judging thru decades, and have seen it all regarding uniforms and costuming over the decades, are effected by a Corps uniform choice in their scoring and placements doesn't know many of these judges. Now, having said all this, if these judges, some long in the tooth now, some might believe could be having age related hearing and vision issues, then thats a separate issue altogether....not a " Corps uniform issue " having any possible effect on scores and placements.

I'm not sure where anyone has said that a uniform change is affecting a corps placement by multiple spots. Crown wearing a different uniform than last year doesn't put them in 1st or 8th. Maybe it could have pushed them up one spot over the course of the summer or helped a few tenths though if they were extremely effective? Who knows? I'm disagreeing with your opinion that the uniform a corps wears has absolutely no bearing on how they are perceived and scored. I guess the Cadets just changed their cumberbund colors just for something fun to do this season.

I'm basing my view off of speaking to visual judges in critiques directly over the past 9 summers. Have you discussed this topic in critique recently?

What have the DCI judges told you when you told them that the uniform and color choices do not matter?

[GUARDLING]

I sorta agree with brasso here. I don't think unis affect scores nearly as much as people are making them out to BUT I do think they do have an unconscious influence on judging. They can bring attention to visual dirt or cause issues in the way the percussion plays. In that aspect, yes they would affect judging. Otherwise, I highly doubt judges specifically look for the influence of unis on performance.

sorry , on this one, it's just as they are all saying. It affect's more than most think , including all the dirt in every area of the corps. Even corps like Boston, why change their uniforms, SCV why change if it didnt work. Visual adds to points, sloppy looks or things that show dirt, takes points, even the basic newbie staff member knows all this. It is even consideration when cleaning a corps and what a person see's or doesnt see. EVERYTHING put on that field could add or take away from a program, from flag color choice, props , certain parts of uniforms. Think about it, if you are presenting something for critique in a competition, why wouldn't it be critiqued.

Edited August 29, 2014 by GUARDLING

[GUARDLING]

I'm not sure where anyone has said that a uniform change is affecting a corps placement by multiple spots. Crown wearing a different uniform than last year doesn't put them in 1st or 8th. Maybe it could have pushed them up one spot over the course of the summer or helped a few tenths though if they were extremely effective? Who knows? I'm disagreeing with your opinion that the uniform a corps wears has absolutely no bearing on how they are perceived and scored. I guess the Cadets just changed their cumberbund colors just for something fun to do this season.

I'm basing my view off of speaking to visual judges in critiques directly over the past 9 summers. Have you discussed this topic in critique recently?

What have the DCI judges told you when you told them that the uniform and color choices do not matter?

you dont have to defend what you speak about in critiques,( save your breath )..lol, even though I have done the same for decades and I do mean decades. It matters, end of story!

Edited August 29, 2014 by GUARDLING

[BRASSO]

I'm disagreeing with your opinion that the uniform a corps wears has absolutely no bearing on how they are perceived and scored.

I believe that unis and scores and placements have virtually no relationship. But since we can not say EVER, then I suppose the effects of unis to scores and placements have as much effect as the weather wind during a performance as do the judges thoughts on the uniforms selected for that season by all these Corps.

[BRASSO]

sorry , on this one, it's just as they are all saying. It affect's more than most think ,

If this is the case, then its a logical no brainer then that Crown ( that went to 1st to 5th ) will be ditching their uniforms after this season. Thats because if we accept your position, the uniform choice Corps make ( your words ) " effects more than most think ".

But this is just plain silly, imo. Crown went from 1st to 5th in one season, and this uniform choice of theirs ( as bad as it was in my opinion ) had virtually nothing at all to do with their finishing either 5th this season, nor 1st last season.

If anybody such as yourself wants to share with us what placements were effected this season with the judges by choices of uniforms, I'd be glad to hear of it, Otherwise, it seems to me that uniform choices are " much less " than what most think, not ( as you state here ) " more than what most think ".

Edited August 29, 2014 by BRASSO