cixelsyd Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 One can say the same from BITD. Back then many many parents supported their kids and showed up at everything,volunteered ,etc etc. Today it is a very different story. Drum Corps was a local thing, very different today, Yesterdays kid had alot less choice from BITD , very different today. Although it is true fans ,may not stay as long as before it's for so many more reasons than changes within the drum corps world. Personally, I have been through every change and with so many reasons why drum corps shouldn't be around today, IT IS. This is a testament to those preserving the activity however necessary to accommodate the world we are in. Many Many fans were also turned off long before the past 10 or 15 years, nothing new when it comes to change. I did not think it would be controversial to suggest that the whirlwind changes of recent DCI might have shortened the average tenure of a DCI fan. Why so defensive? By the way, what are you alluding to as reasons why drum corps should not be around today? I cannot think of one. Not a good reason, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 I did not think it would be controversial to suggest that the whirlwind changes of recent DCI might have shortened the average tenure of a DCI fan. Why so defensive? By the way, what are you alluding to as reasons why drum corps should not be around today? I cannot think of one. Not a good reason, anyway. I think, perhaps, Guardling is trying to bring a more balanced, honest assessment to the discussion of "reasons DCI might have shortened the average tenure of a DCI fan. I think one of his closing thoughts states it succinctly: Although it is true fans ,may not stay as long as before it's for so many more reasons than changes within the drum corps world. Most things are not a black/white, cause/effect, simple explanation. In a world where the media wants to boil everything down to simple sound bites for the intelligence-impaired, it's easy to lose sight on the fact that there are so many complex reasons large problems. And that includes why demographic and longevity of DCI fans has shifted. Yes, I don't think people would argue that ONE reason could be changes to the activity, but as pointed out the activity has be fraught with changes from the beginning. I aged-out in the late 90's, and I experienced PLENTY of negativity from people who thought writing was geared too much towards front ensemble 'noise,' drum tuning was too high/brittle, etc. I know people who gave up when brass instruments gained valves or when corps went nutty with props/costuming in the 80's (I actually no someone who was so appalled by the visual stuff in SCV 1987 that they refused to ever watch drum corps after that). But it's also fair to assess that there are a myriad of other reasons why the demo might've changed for DCI. Trying to whittle down the discussion to just 'a' reason is goofy and illogical 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) I did not think it would be controversial to suggest that the whirlwind changes of recent DCI might have shortened the average tenure of a DCI fan. Why so defensive? By the way, what are you alluding to as reasons why drum corps should not be around today? I cannot think of one. Not a good reason, anyway. Not defensive at all. Sorry you took it that way or I made it sound that way. Didn't mean to. I do think there were many reasons why drum corps shouldn't or could have not been around today. !. the ever changing world of the 70s when most drum corps were folding due to many reason including bad management or at very least good people not knowing how to move forward. 2. Communities changing and the support of many local groups and clubs etc etc falling by the wayside. 3. The changing type of member. Very different from today's member with a lot more choices today than ever. 4. Money / costs to run things as well as members fees. And its not because of all the new bells and whistles Try getting a rehearsal facility today. This is just a few of dozens more reasons why the activity could have easily gone away. Edited October 22, 2014 by GUARDLING 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 I think, perhaps, Guardling is trying to bring a more balanced, honest assessment to the discussion of "reasons DCI might have shortened the average tenure of a DCI fan. I think one of his closing thoughts states it succinctly: Most things are not a black/white, cause/effect, simple explanation. In a world where the media wants to boil everything down to simple sound bites for the intelligence-impaired, it's easy to lose sight on the fact that there are so many complex reasons large problems. And that includes why demographic and longevity of DCI fans has shifted. Yes, I don't think people would argue that ONE reason could be changes to the activity, but as pointed out the activity has be fraught with changes from the beginning. I aged-out in the late 90's, and I experienced PLENTY of negativity from people who thought writing was geared too much towards front ensemble 'noise,' drum tuning was too high/brittle, etc. I know people who gave up when brass instruments gained valves or when corps went nutty with props/costuming in the 80's (I actually no someone who was so appalled by the visual stuff in SCV 1987 that they refused to ever watch drum corps after that). But it's also fair to assess that there are a myriad of other reasons why the demo might've changed for DCI. Trying to whittle down the discussion to just 'a' reason is goofy and illogical exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xandandl Posted October 22, 2014 Author Share Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) It amazes me always that those who seek to keep the activity written in stone as in BITD (back in THEIR day) have no problems adapting to the computer to read this post, microwaving their coffee and food, getting to the contests in the most up to date means of transportation, and listening to the corps after the season through the most modern electronics. But should the corps change, NEVER they claim. Yes family life has changed, society has changed, schools have changed, and in those ways, kids have changed. That drum corps has become no longer a local but (inter)national activity has much to do with it as well as/with fan tenure just as much as the proportionate rise in ticket prices, hotel prices, and costs for being on the road. Luxury money isn't available to everyone and some grow more mature with their spendings as they take on the commitments of marriage, family life, and career. Other than it is music on a field with colorful visuals, nope, not much will be the same. Edited October 22, 2014 by xandandl 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 The first problem with this line of reasoning is in characterizing all spectators as "fans". A number of people attend one show and never come back - they are not "fans". Change "fan" to "spectator" where I underlined it above, and reconsider your premise. How much longer does the average "fan" really stay? Second problem with your logic is in extrapolating about the "majority of fans". If your data is correct, it may be true that the majority of unique spectators have not seen drum corps prior to 2009. However, considering how many more shows ardent fans attend, they may still be the majority of people in the stands on any given day. Third problem is speculating on how many people have been turned off to the activity without any supporting data. Granted, I may be doing the same here... but my hunch is that the average term of fandom was longer than 3 1/2 years before the firestorm of changes we have seen in the past 12-15 years. To point one, I was specifically targeting the fan in my post as opposed to the spectator. Today's "long-term" fans only bump the average fan tenure to 3 1/2 years. Sure, there are fans who have been around much longer than that (myself included) but they are as much on the fringe as are the "one-and-done" spectators you identify. To point two, I ask that you consider the survey source of the data. If your contention were true, the survey results would have been skewed heavily towards repeat, long-term fans as they answer and re-answer the same survey questions at each of the many more shows you contend they attend. But, instead, the average is not skewed by them. In fact, I would suggest that despite the long-term fan taking surveys at multiple shows, the results are still a short-term 3 1/2 years. To point three, which was addressed well earlier, it's a tough case to make that changes in DCI have been the cause of fans leaving any more than the plethora of other, unrelated societal changes that may have had a greater impact. (BTW, 1999 or "late 1990s", not 2009.) Finally, my primary point is that the number of fans (attendees, spectators, whatever) who currently object to modern drum corps on the grounds of those supposed DCI changes is rapidly dwindling simply because fewer and fewer current observers of drum corps have been around long enough to remember the days prior to the changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) Was that in DCW, or the DCI website or something? Can you post a link to that: sounds like an interesting read Sorry, no, I can't post a link. But I can tell you that, by a margin of nearly 2 to 1 over the next most-given reason, 27% of fans surveyed said they attended the event because "I just like drum corps". Add in the 12% who answered that they attended to support the event or the activity and you have nearly 40% who are there just because they like it. And, in case you're wondering, there was not a response choice of "I don't really like today's drum corps. I'm only here in hopes that they change it back to what I did like." EDIT: Oh, and add in the next most-often-given answer of "I came with my band", and if you can concede that, likely, these respondents do enjoy today's drum corps, and you have a clear majority of fans who attend because they like and support the activity as it is. Edited October 22, 2014 by garfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincoln Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) There are issues I have where the activity is going. Yet I am reading this forum and DCI.org almost every day. Sometimes I post, sometimes I just read. Every year I buy the Fan Network pass and the DVDs. Every year I scrutinize YouTube for whatever I can find - sometimes knowing it has to be quick before it's taken down. No matter what I disagree with, if the stars were to align and a show would be close to home, I would buy the ticket to attend as soon as I could. it hasn't been that way since 2000. Yet, here I am, 14 years after my last live show, still following the activity. Going to finals in Indy is not possible. I also think that in the event that woodwinds are added, I'll be posting the exact same thing as above. Edited October 22, 2014 by Lincoln 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 It amazes me always that those who seek to keep the activity written in stone as in BITD (back in THEIR day) have no problems adapting to the computer to read this post, microwaving their coffee and food, getting to the contests in the most up to date means of transportation, and listening to the corps after the season through the most modern electronics. But should the corps change, NEVER they claim. Yes family life has changed, society has changed, schools have changed, and in those ways, kids have changed. That drum corps has become no longer a local but (inter)national activity has much to do with it as well as/with fan tenure just as much as the proportionate rise in ticket prices, hotel prices, and costs for being on the road. Luxury money isn't available to everyone and some grow more mature with their spendings as they take on the commitments of marriage, family life, and career. Other than it is music on a field with colorful visuals, nope, not much will be the same. very true. I have always said with how the world is so different now from the 70s or 60s what would make anyone think that drum corps wouldnt change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Because one man's positive effect is another man's negative effect. We can all agree that a missed rifle toss has a negative effect on the show, but elements creeping into the activity such as electronics, speaker systems, narration, trombones etc. ad nauseam ruin it for a lot of fans. What would ruin it for you? Laser light show? Trained elephants? Vuvuzelas? negative can also be how you feel. I saw a 9/11 show in 2002 that left me incredibly angry.....but it was so well done, it was truly effective. they wanted me ###### off ( and everyone else) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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