Fan Network - Why have you forsaken me?

[Jeff Ream]

A full and complete FN refund should be due those subscribers that elect one now, imo.

For example : assume 2 sets of cash buyers of a 1 mlliion dollar home. Two scenarios, in other words.

The first buyers scenario buy the home principally ( for them ) because it has an attractive , uniquely designed indoor pool, that they loved about the house.

The second set of buyers scenario buy the home , DESPITE the fact it has an indoor pool, an indoor pool that they do not want to clean, maintain, and besides, they arn't swimmers.

Before the buyers move in, the owner- seller decides to close the indoor pool, and pave the ground over. The owner then decides to deduct $100,000 off the 1 million dollar sale price, and hold the buyers to the contract for the purchase of the home.

While the 2nd case scenario buyers, who don't use, nor particularly want the indoor pool, might be ok with the return of the $100,000, the 1st set of scenario case buyers, might be justifiably upset that the owner thinks that house is worth $900,000 to them still. It might be, but thats really up to the buyers of the now diminished in value home that no longer has the desired pool they wanted... The first set of buyers thus,, who wanted a house with an indoor pool, are entitled to a complete and full refund for the entire 1 million dollars paid if they want the full refund. The owner- seller never even asked the purchaser if it'd be ok with them to alter the product sold to them, by paving over the indoor pool after the agreement was made to purchase the house, and taking their money. Furthermore,, if its found that the owner-seller never had a proper permit to build an indoor pool, and the town made them close the indoor pool as a result of this and after the owner-seller took the 1 million dollars, thats exclusively the owner-seller's problem, and does not alter the fact in the least that the purchaser is entitled now to a full and complete refund of their monies paid if they so choose.. Thats how I see it anyway.

honestly, dealing with this stuff for a living, odds are the buyers would want more than $100k, or cancel the purchase contract entirely at no loss to them.

However this type of contract has far more specific language built in to the contract than the DCi Fan network agreement does,

abd again, the customers that would truly want a full refund are less than 10% of the total subscriber base. My hunch is DCi offers a credit on merchandise.

But let me ask this:

of those of you that enjoy the archives...do you use just that feature, or do you enjoy live feeds too? Because if you want the best of both worlds, if DCI were to offer any refunds, the amount should be at best half if you enjoy live feeds too as only half of the products features have been denied to you.

Edited December 20, 2014 by Jeff Ream

[Grumpy]

I was VERY surprised to see that some of Mangione's music was pulled...he's one of our biggest supporters; also BD '94-I remember somewhere in my memory that either BD played this for Corea or he heard them perform it, and he was very pleased with it.

[Jeff Ream]

Honestly all I use FN for is to listen to DCI shows as study music over the semester. Almost exclusively. I'll watch a live show or two over the summer but I'm usually too busy to catch any of them. Seeing this happen is really disappointing since I use FN pretty much everyday during the semester.

and you're part of probably less than 3% of the subscriber base

[BRASSO]

True, but this isn't the same topic as a live stream crapping out. This is a content issue, which is spelled out in the terms of the FN subscription. DCI has no obligation in this topic.

Just as they don't give refunds if a show is rained out, because it's in the fine print, and on the tickets.

You could be right... on the fine print. Although any consumer practice lawyers on here will tell you that " the fine print " language does not always protect the seller in marketing and advertising of a product that is purchased. Its by no means as cut and dried a protection to the seller as you appear to believe it is.

Buyer Beware , is a good lesson though. It will come in handy in all future purchases... particularly anything else that DCI decides to sell us in the future after this.

Edited December 20, 2014 by BRASSO

[tesmusic]

This is very disappointing, and will probably end up costing DCI some $$$ in the future. I understand the issues with copyright laws, and know it could possibly get worse, now with the new media formats of live streaming, and on demand. However, what I am even more upset about is the fact that we would even have to contacdt DCI to find out what is going on. There should be something on the front page of thefannetwork website explaining what is going on, and which shows had to be pulled, and whether it looks like full shows, or partial shows will be returned to thefannetwork.org. This is such poor management from the DCi team. Ever since DA took over the DCi office in the late 90s, customer service has just gone right out the window. And it has gotten severely worse the last 5 or 6 years. It used to be the customer service team at DCI was passionate about drum corps, just like the fans. And if they didn't know the answers, they would get the information and return phone calls. I do understand that it is possible that this issue may not have been able to have been prevented. But as a paying customer for a service, I think we deserve the notification that there have been some problems arising with our service, along with an explanation. Whether it be an email, or something when we log into thefannetwork. But to have to email the DCI office for an explanation is absolutely ridiculous. They had time to pull the videos offline, it wouldn't have taken but another 2 minutes to put up a short eplanation of why. We definitely need someone new in the executive director spot for DCI.

You realize it is spelled out in the terms of the subscription you have to click to join the FN, right?

Should DCI say something, yes. Do they have to, no. It's in the fine print.

As for your assessment on DA, that's your opinion, but I wonder where your beliefs come from on the DCI staff. In my dealings with them, and their feelings on the activity, you're pretty far off.

Maybe we could go back to the Don Pesceone days of DCI meetings to exotic locations, as the organization was almost filing for bankruptcy before DA took over. That sounds logical.

[tesmusic]

You could be right... on the fine print. Although any consumer practice lawyers on here will tell you that " the fine print " language does not always protect the seller in marketing and advertising of a product that is purchased. Its by no means as cut and dried a protection as you appear to believe it is.

Buyer Beware , is a good lesson. It will come in handy in all future purchases... particularly anything else that DCI decides to sell us in the future.

But that is where the wording DCI has works. Nowhere does it say complete content of all show back to 1975, it doesn't even imply that.

So quite simply, they are in the clear.

Edited December 20, 2014 by tesmusic

[Lincoln]

This is very disappointing, and will probably end up costing DCI some $$$ in the future. I understand the issues with copyright laws, and know it could possibly get worse, now with the new media formats of live streaming, and on demand. However, what I am even more upset about is the fact that we would even have to contacdt DCI to find out what is going on. There should be something on the front page of thefannetwork website explaining what is going on, and which shows had to be pulled, and whether it looks like full shows, or partial shows will be returned to thefannetwork.org. This is such poor management from the DCi team. Ever since DA took over the DCi office in the late 90s, customer service has just gone right out the window. And it has gotten severely worse the last 5 or 6 years. It used to be the customer service team at DCI was passionate about drum corps, just like the fans. And if they didn't know the answers, they would get the information and return phone calls. I do understand that it is possible that this issue may not have been able to have been prevented. But as a paying customer for a service, I think we deserve the notification that there have been some problems arising with our service, along with an explanation. Whether it be an email, or something when we log into thefannetwork. But to have to email the DCI office for an explanation is absolutely ridiculous. They had time to pull the videos offline, it wouldn't have taken but another 2 minutes to put up a short eplanation of why. We definitely need someone new in the executive director spot for DCI.

Based on what has been discussed about this issue and how volatile it is, they may have been in a position to react right away and then sort through things later. I'm sure going through the archive was no small feat for whomever had to do it.

Edited December 20, 2014 by Lincoln

[Jeff Ream]

This is very disappointing, and will probably end up costing DCI some $$$ in the future. I understand the issues with copyright laws, and know it could possibly get worse, now with the new media formats of live streaming, and on demand. However, what I am even more upset about is the fact that we would even have to contacdt DCI to find out what is going on. There should be something on the front page of thefannetwork website explaining what is going on, and which shows had to be pulled, and whether it looks like full shows, or partial shows will be returned to thefannetwork.org. This is such poor management from the DCi team. Ever since DA took over the DCi office in the late 90s, customer service has just gone right out the window. And it has gotten severely worse the last 5 or 6 years. It used to be the customer service team at DCI was passionate about drum corps, just like the fans. And if they didn't know the answers, they would get the information and return phone calls. I do understand that it is possible that this issue may not have been able to have been prevented. But as a paying customer for a service, I think we deserve the notification that there have been some problems arising with our service, along with an explanation. Whether it be an email, or something when we log into thefannetwork. But to have to email the DCI office for an explanation is absolutely ridiculous. They had time to pull the videos offline, it wouldn't have taken but another 2 minutes to put up a short eplanation of why. We definitely need someone new in the executive director spot for DCI.

While I'm one to chuck DCI under the bus for many things, on this I won't fault them. Why?

one, everything went down real fast.

two, everyone was at Midwest

three, before they said anything that could have damaged them worse, they waited for legal advice. Trust me, if DCi fired off a statement that wasn't 100% dead on legally accurate, it could have made life worse for them.

I expect info Monday.

[Jeff Ream]

I was VERY surprised to see that some of Mangione's music was pulled...he's one of our biggest supporters; also BD '94-I remember somewhere in my memory that either BD played this for Corea or he heard them perform it, and he was very pleased with it.

it's the publishers, not the artists.

it all came from one publisher pushing the boundaries

[drangin]

But let me ask this:

of those of you that enjoy the archives...do you use just that feature, or do you enjoy live feeds too? Because if you want the best of both worlds, if DCI were to offer any refunds, the amount should be at best half if you enjoy live feeds too as only half of the products features have been denied to you.

My interest in FN is (was) in the pre-2000 bugle-era stuff, the part that FN just shredded. Now it's like an encyclopedia with several volumes missing - worthless.

I've posted before that I think FN should split into two services, one for legacy shows and one for live streams, because I enjoy the older shows and am not interested in the direction DCI is going with all the electronics and yap-yap-yap. Now FN offers me nothing of interest.

I really feel that DCI pulled the rug out from under us and ripped us off. They could have waited till the end of the subscription and warned us about changes for next year. Five months would have made no difference. Did they get a "cease and desist" letter? In any case, DCI owes subscribers a pro-rated refund.