JimF-LowBari Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) 1) I am, for some reason, SHOCKED that DCI has available on Beta! Are they originally sold-by-DCI Beta tapes, or did you convert VHS (or TV?) recordings to Beta? I'm a format junky, and even though I'm relatively young (aged-out in 1998) I've pretty much owned all of the various video formats (I still own/use a Laser Disc player, though now drum corps was released on that format that I'm aware of). I do have several DCI audio recordings on mini-disc, which were duped from tapes or records before the ease of mp3 or CD burning/copying. Had a co-worker who was in the Navy back in the 80s. Guy had a ton of Beta tapes of 'homemade' (aka pirated) stuff. Guy was SOL ('Stuff Outta Luck') as he could not afford to replace it all with VHS (if it was available) or buy the equipment to convert. And he only had one Beta viewer..... LOL back in the 80s went to training out of town a lot and trying to get into hotels with in room movies. Most of then had video disk in the lobby and a hookup to the rooms. One night it was 'Mad Max Road Warrior' at 6, 'Texas Chainsaw Massacre' at 8 and a Richard Pryor stand up show at 10. Next day I asked the clerk who picked the movies/ Answer "the guy who got his ### fired this morning". As for formats going thru in laws (RIP) stuff. Never knew there were so many home movie (film reel) formats..... *ugh* Not aware of DC on Beta but did see some 8 tracks in the 70s..... and that bunch of cassettes I keep wanting to burn to CD. By the time I do that, CD will be done..... Edited January 23, 2015 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllianaLancerContra Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) Questions for someone who understands the economics of the issue: What kind of money are we talking about? Assuming that all the 'rights' for a non-public-domain song need to be purchased, how much does this cost? I suspect that 'rights' for some tunes are more than others (for example, Carmina Burana is real expensive, something else not so much). Is part of the issue that DCI would need to spread the expense over a certain number of copies sold, and it is difficult to forecast sales? Or that potentially a copy of Corps A's performance would cost $Y, but a copy of Corps B's performance at the same competition would cost $Z? How much money are the copyright holders losing to DCI (although I understand it is also a legal and moral issue)? Thoughts? Or here is a thought / solution - what if one season DCI required all corps to only use music in the public domain. They could start now - all 2016 shows can only use public domain tunes. Plenty of time to prepare.....It would be interesting to see what the designers come up with. Edited January 23, 2015 by IllianaLancerContra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 1) I am, for some reason, SHOCKED that DCI has available on Beta! Are they originally sold-by-DCI Beta tapes, or did you convert VHS (or TV?) recordings to Beta? I'm a format junky, and even though I'm relatively young (aged-out in 1998) I've pretty much owned all of the various video formats (I still own/use a Laser Disc player, though now drum corps was released on that format that I'm aware of). I do have several DCI audio recordings on mini-disc, which were duped from tapes or records before the ease of mp3 or CD burning/copying. 2) I will argue with anyone that Beta = the superior format to VHS, but VHS had the financial support and commitment from studios that Beta never enjoyed, and thus was trampled when customers couldn't buy/rent all of the updated movies on Beta that they could on VHS (though it was awesome to go into video rental stores and rent Beta when all the VHS copies were out-of-stock) 3) I don't mean to pick nits, but with the bold above did you meant 'DVD quality of the Legacy shows?' I don't think DCI sells the Legacy recordings on BluRay, unless you mean the 'Essentials' collection (which I 100% agree the audio & video of those discs, at least the 'Champions' volumes I own, are pretty off-the-hook). I'm an audio snob, and while I'm sure the modern CD's are recorded and mastered MUCH better than the old school records were in the 70s and 80s, I would probably still prefer to listen to the vinyl than duped CD if I had the choice. The vinyl records really made those older shows sound warm, while I think the CD remasters/dupes/whatever (the official CD recordings sold by corps) kind of make the corps sound bright and tinny. No doubt that might have been part of the characteristic sound, but IMO the vinyl helped make those corps' sound probably closer to the live experience than the more sterile CD's or mp3s. ** NOTE ** Yes, I am aware of the goofy way this discussion was turned, as I am bummed about DCI's loss of legacy shows on FN and we're talking about DCI FN moving to an updated platform while I hype the virtues of formats that are long-since dead. 1. Yes, they are official branded DCI Beta tapes. The '86's are market "Beta", the '87 is Beta II and the '88's are Beta III. I also have Beta that I recorded but these are official DCI issue. 2. Ditto. Beta beat everything in its day. 3. I was referring to Legacy shows in the aggregate, not THE Legacy Collection, which I have on DVD. The BluRay series of Masters and Champions legacy shows is incredible, especially the audio. I, too, am an audio snob. My serious listening is done on my set of big planar Magnepans driven by four Bryston 4B amps, two per speaker. My casual listening and watching is done in front of my PC with Avid DSM-2 studio speakers. Yum. I've said it before here: I've never heard anything as live and authentic, that can handle the HUGE frequency band of drum corps especially at volume, like Maggies can. Lastly, this thread is about platforms and audio and video drum corps. Your points are perfectly appropriate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Interesting ideas. They could play the Netflix Instant/Disney game, where certain years or performances are available for a certain time and then pulled ("put in the vault" as Disney would say). That would be a good way to maybe drive traffic on a regular basis: if they had adds on the pages (not in the video, but maybe a banner ad) that could potential add revenue. It would also make things more interesting for fans, and maybe keep the site relevant year-round instead of customers thinking, "oh yeah: I can watch old drum corps" in March or something. If they actually implemented something like that, they're losing a subscriber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 If they actually implemented something like that, they're losing a subscriber. I suspect the amount of time and thinking to put that into place would make the idea not viable for DCI. No offense to DCI, but I suspect they put most of their effort into how to make the live streaming as good as possible + maybe interface (with announced changes), with some effort obviously put into legal issues: they don't much much FN thought into the other stuff as far as content presentation or archive promotion, so what I described is likely to never happen or even be thought of. Could be wrong or course, but I'm confident FN fans don't have to worry about the idea (though they likely DO have to worry about all of the legacy shows in full readily available on FN, unfortunately) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Freedman Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Well, they could make paid content free for a limited time. That would certainly promote FN. So, for example, each week a different classic show could be available free. Full show only, no partial shows. Drum corps shows really only work as full entities, or MAYBE as an individual full tune within a show. Definitely not interrupted clips as they do give away sometimes. Those seem designed to annoy, not really promote. Just go full show and actually attract some ATTENTION! Imagine those band teachers going, "Ok this week Star 93 is free on Fan Network. Go watch it - that's an order!" You've got to give it away to get back more. That's how it works today. Anyway, when you have non-subscribers visiting your website each week to see what's served up, eventually you are going to get them to sign up when they have the cash to do it. It's really a win-win. I would also like to see casual talk shows each year for one or more captions, Brass Roots style. So you could have Michael Cesario and several other visual designers talking about the shows after the fact (not just before), and maybe their favorite all time designs. Or some percussion CHs talking about the percussion books, etc. Or from different captions. Experiment Video only though. I want to see faces. Brass Roots looks cheap to make, and is wonderful. These formal interviews they do don't really satisfy. I want relaxed video conversations, taking some time, enjoying each other's company, joking around a little, and generally gushing about drum corps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Freedman Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 A Staff Search tab You search the staff member you want, and you see only shows on which that staff member worked, listing the role. It would take a lot of work to put together the historical database, but each corps could be tasked with providing that information in a spreadsheet, so it could be streamlined. Someone should be archiving that data anyway, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
31rabbit Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 It would take a lot of work to put together the historical database, but each corps could be tasked with providing that information in a spreadsheet, so it could be streamlined. Someone should be archiving that data anyway, IMO. i dig that. now that, depending who you talk to, Concept & Design are Nearly As / As / More Important than Technical Execution, I imagine that Design Teams will sooner/later be a common topic of discussion among even casual fans. we'll be talking about them like we talk about Directors of movies, "So-&-So's Phantom Regiment Production of ______." don't know what it's like among Brass folks, but I've been parlay to conversation among Serious Drum Guys who won't know what corps won in a given year but can readily name the writers of the Percussion Books for all relevant corps. Not only is this kind of stuff interesting, but it helps establish and trace a lineage of inspiration within the activity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Freedman Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 i dig that. now that, depending who you talk to, Concept & Design are Nearly As / As / More Important than Technical Execution, I imagine that Design Teams will sooner/later be a common topic of discussion among even casual fans. we'll be talking about them like we talk about Directors of movies, "So-&-So's Phantom Regiment Production of ______." don't know what it's like among Brass folks, but I've been parlay to conversation among Serious Drum Guys who won't know what corps won in a given year but can readily name the writers of the Percussion Books for all relevant corps. Not only is this kind of stuff interesting, but it helps establish and trace a lineage of inspiration within the activity. OT: Speaking of design, I'd like to see judging skipped for a year experimentally. It would have to be consistent: no corps could get judged at all that season, so the shows would completely reflect artistic freedom of the designers. No ticking of boxes, no need for constant technical display. Just wail for ten minutes. Let the designers really express themselves. You could have celebrity guest American Idol style judging at some shows, for added entertainment and conversation, but no scores or championships. I think they would be the best shows ever, and would be a great addition to FN. (to bring it back on topic) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Questions for someone who understands the economics of the issue: What kind of money are we talking about? Assuming that all the 'rights' for a non-public-domain song need to be purchased, how much does this cost? I suspect that 'rights' for some tunes are more than others (for example, Carmina Burana is real expensive, something else not so much). Is part of the issue that DCI would need to spread the expense over a certain number of copies sold, and it is difficult to forecast sales? Or that potentially a copy of Corps A's performance would cost $Y, but a copy of Corps B's performance at the same competition would cost $Z? How much money are the copyright holders losing to DCI (although I understand it is also a legal and moral issue)? Thoughts? Or here is a thought / solution - what if one season DCI required all corps to only use music in the public domain. They could start now - all 2016 shows can only use public domain tunes. Plenty of time to prepare.....It would be interesting to see what the designers come up with. how much we talking about? hundreds of thousands if not more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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