nemesiscorps Posted March 2, 2015 Author Share Posted March 2, 2015 (edited) Selling a CD is far from "encouraging fans to skip other corps". In fact you could make an argument that it does just the opposite ( "don't worrry about missing this live because we will record it for you". This is nonsenscial. He never said anything contrary about the concept of creating and promoting CDs, he is speaking to the time, location, and spectacle ("the lot") for which the CD content is promoted and captured (literally while another corps is on the field nearby, actively competing). Self-promotion is ok so long as it's not at the expense of other corps. So ... the Cavaliers should sell CDs of all the the other corps too? You can't be serious in suggesting that this was his point, that corps should promote or sell other corps' CDs? Self-promotion is BY DEFINITION going to exclude the rest of DCI. "Excluding" and "at the expense of" are two completely separate issues. That clearly goes without saying. Seems to me your "nuance" amounts to " corps A should not do a better job promoting itself than corps B (who spends NO TIME promoting itself) because that's just not FAIR!! " Really? That's what you're drawing from his comments? I don't believe you. I have no problem seeing your "nuance" but IMO it's just "things are just fine the way they've always been" point of view. How dare any corps ADVERTISE? They didn't need to do that in the 80's. Why should they do it now!! Where is this coming from? Who said advertising is bad, wrong, unfair, etc.? This suggestion shows a complete lack of understanding of the rationale behind the warmup process. Some corps may be housed 1.5 hours from the show site. You think their best performance will occur going on COLD? I suppose the colorguard should stop with all that stretching too. They've had all day to stretch. Again... what are you talking about? Where did anyone suggest that warming up wasn't necessary? So -- those drumlines in the drumline battle don't warm up ? They play cold? Somehow I doubt that's the case. It appears that you are arguing for the sake of argument, as cixelsyd clearly provided context to his point (as you've quoted, and I've highlighted above). In addition to him clearly advocating corps self-promotion, he also provided an example of what would obviously be going too far in a self-promotion effort (Dave Gibbs reference). He made no reference to any reasonable promotion example that you've given... all of which no one disagrees with, and in fact most (if not all) generally support what corps do in their self promotion... "so long as it's not at the expense of other corps." No one (with the exception of you) suggested that in a self-promotion endeavor, any corps needs to promote or actively work to benefit some other corps. There is no confusion here on what we're talking about. We're discussing issues related to the contest environment, issues that one can reasonably articulate as being less than beneficial to all DCI corps (i.e. warmup distractions outside the stadium that can be observed from inside the stadium; how such activity can be tweaked to the benefit of the corps warming up AND the competing corps on the field; etc.). Several suggestions (good, bad, or otherwise) have been offered to address these issues. You opine that there is no problem, which is fine... for you. You appear to be hurling "nonsensical" things at the wall in hopes that something will stick, all in an effort to defend your position that appears to be without substance beyond your opinion. If that's your tactic in a discussion or debate, cixelsyd is correct, he nor anyone can help you, because you don't appear to be on a quest to at least understand the position of others. I hope this isn't too personal, it's not meant to be. I'd just like to hear a bit more substance in support of your opposition to these ideas, as you may actually have something to offer that hasn't been considered. Edited March 2, 2015 by nemesiscorps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCorps Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 If you encourage fans to see a corps in the lot, it naturally takes away from the paid DCI product - the show. I think that's all he's getting at. However, at the same time, the money is already spent with the exception of those who go to the show and stay in the lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 This is nonsenscial. Self-promotion is ok so long as it's not at the expense of other corps. So ... the Cavaliers should sell CDs of all the the other corps too? Self-promotion is BY DEFINITION going to exclude the rest of DCI. How so? Nothing stops me from buying a CD of the Cavaliers and CDs of other corps....or a CD with 6 or 7 different corps on it like DCI produces. In similar fashion, the Cavaliers can self-promote about their appearances at DCI events - "be in the stands at 9:38 when we are on", or whatever - that does not stop me from being in the stands at 9:21, 9:04, etc., and seeing their competition too. Seems to me your "nuance" amounts to " corps A should not do a better job promoting itself than corps B (who spends NO TIME promoting itself) because that's just not FAIR!! Okay, the shoe is on your foot now. Show me which corps "spends NO TIME promoting itself". This suggestion shows a complete lack of understanding of the rationale behind the warmup process. Some corps may be housed 1.5 hours from the show site. You think their best performance will occur going on COLD? I suppose the colorguard should stop with all that stretching too. They've had all day to stretch. Personally, I do not like that idea - but I threw it out there for discussion because the warmup process is already far from ideal. At most show sites, corps cannot play anywhere near the field without interfering with the show. DCI makes an effort to locate warmup zones far enough away to avoid that problem. The result is that corps warm up, then go 30 minutes without playing while they walk/march from the warmup area to the stadium gate and wait their turn to take the field. So they are going on "cold", to some extent. Historically, the majority of corps coped with that by doing the 1-minute on-field warmup, while others would just start "cold". Today, the pre-show often serves the same purpose as an on-field warmup, but blends into the program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Maybe you should charge LESS to folks who get in their seats at the "Star Spangled banner"! And charge a premium for each corps you skip. Some theatres have a policy of charging more for their less desirable seats, on the grounds that if those seats are being sold, it means the better seats have already been taken and therefore the demand is higher at the performance in question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Some theatres have a policy of charging more for their less desirable seats, on the grounds that if those seats are being sold, it means the better seats have already been taken and therefore the demand is higher at the performance in question. And the folks who sit on the 50 get a he11 of a deal! The cheap seats are reserved for bands (kids don't have money? Really?) What does this do to them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 If you encourage fans to see a corps in the lot, it naturally takes away from the paid DCI product - the show. I think that's all he's getting at. However, at the same time, the money is already spent with the exception of those who go to the show and stay in the lot. FWIW I know FAR more people who's version of "going to the show" means paying zero dollars to watch drum lines and brass warm-ups in the lot than people who pay to go to drum corps shows. I may be the minority, and just know a lot of cheap drum corps fans (and staffers/judges/students who are already at the show for one reason or the other and not buying a ticket). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleran Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 let's be honest -- the HUGE majority of "hang out in the lot" people are drummers. FWIW I know FAR more people who's version of "going to the show" means paying zero dollars .... I may be the minority, and just know a lot of cheap drum corps fans Well, you DO have "perc" in your screenname ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Well, you DO have "perc" in your screenname ... Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Well, you DO have "perc" in your screenname ... That's true, and most of the people I'm talking about who skip the show to hang in the lot are drummers. FWIW, as a percussionist I'm not a huge fan of hanging out in the lot watching drum lines. Sometimes I will do that a little bit if it's a student in the corps or a friend on staff but I'd much rather watch corps' shows than see segments of it played by only part of the corps in the warm-up lot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 That's true, and most of the people I'm talking about who skip the show to hang in the lot are drummers. FWIW, as a percussionist I'm not a huge fan of hanging out in the lot watching drum lines. Sometimes I will do that a little bit if it's a student in the corps or a friend on staff but I'd much rather watch corps' shows than see segments of it played by only part of the corps in the warm-up lot. Another reason why the lot should be closed. As much as I love watching amazing drumlines (Instagram: Tastydrumlicks) DCI should STOP giving away their product. DCI is in the business of making money. Period. End. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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