LabMaster Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 The "ya screw up yer out" part is what escapes me. During the first week (aka beat techniques into you week) we did what you described and it helped. But if you are out right away and you're just staring at the people left how does that help? Man... flashback to game when I was taking ice skating lessons. When the music stops... freeze... and if you move you go to the side. At least that wasn't presented as learning something, it was during the fun time after the lessons/ Getting better was the purpose. BITD it was about trying for perfection. At least attempting it. Precision marching, execution. You needed basics. Look at winning organization in performance areas, auto racing, sports, dance, theater, etc., etc. They most often point to their success being due to mastering the basics. Jeez, a few people here being critical of this have me scratching my head. I doubt this is the same attitude for a brass player, drummer or guard member. Don't they all practice basics of their "craft". Why wouldn't the same be true of the ensemble for drill? Block does that. Elimination block exposes slackers and those who need help. Ye screw up you're out of the blck. keep screwing up and you might be out of the show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeZ Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 So the people who screw up leave the block, and the people who don't screw up stay in the block. That makes total sense. Basics are awesome. An elimination block is stupid. But that's just me...and I've ran my fair share of basics blocks. Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 We did this every week in both HS and in TBDBITL, and I did it several times in corps. I'm with Z, yawn. My view is that, if the kids are required to do this exercise, the it should be required that "march!" is pronounced with an "m" instead of an "h". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KVG_DC Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I recall doing this once in high school band. We did basics blocks with a drum major who'd marched with the Bluecoats every day during summer blocks and camp. Mostly it was scalloping turns in a figure eight pattern while in a block over and over and over. So once he decided to do an elimination thing. Because there was a high number of people who hated basic blocks, they'd mess up early on purpose to sit out. It was pretty obvious they didn't give a crap about being eliminated or look up to who won. A freshman from my section and myself made it to the last 8 when they finally called it for time. It was was a total waste of time because people who needed to be working on technique were left off the hook to chat about whatever while those of us were already good were trying to battle it out. From that point on, everyone marched. They let us section leaders out of the block to watch our section go and bark at them with pointers for better technique when they messed up but I was one of those geeks who'd rather be marching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I recall doing this once in high school band. We did basics blocks with a drum major who'd marched with the Bluecoats every day during summer blocks and camp. Mostly it was scalloping turns in a figure eight pattern while in a block over and over and over. So once he decided to do an elimination thing. Because there was a high number of people who hated basic blocks, they'd mess up early on purpose to sit out. It was pretty obvious they didn't give a crap about being eliminated or look up to who won. A freshman from my section and myself made it to the last 8 when they finally called it for time. It was was a total waste of time because people who needed to be working on technique were left off the hook to chat about whatever while those of us were already good were trying to battle it out. From that point on, everyone Harched. They let us section leaders out of the block to watch our section go and bark at them with pointers for better technique when they messed up but I was one of those geeks who'd rather be marching. Fixed that for ya. Heh. I kill me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornTeacher Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 (edited) Fixed that for ya. Heh. I kill me. Careful there, Achmed...the Copyright Police will be knocking at your door on behalf of Jeff Dunham. Edited February 18, 2015 by HornTeacher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 (edited) In reponse to Labmaster (no quote function for my IE Version). Basics were mastered during the first week of band camp. How do you master basics standing on the sidelines watching? I was lucky in that the bands and corps I were in had plenty of self starters who were definitely not slackers. But if there was a problem it was solved by working on the problem and not by doing "you screwed up... go stand over there". IOW - I can see elimination block as a way to relax, have fun and have a bit of personal competition. But as a teaching tool someone will have to explain how watching others like a bump on the log helps improve your skills. Yeah I don't believe "Learning By Osmosis" works. Oh yeah, threaten someone in a Sr corps that they will be out of the show. I wanna have popcorn for that fireworks show. Irony is seeing Rich Templins name in lower thread. Rich would scream and yell but the problem would be discussed which I see missing from what you posted. Edit: To KVGs post, my college MB during "basics week" had the band line up and go thru basic drill while sections leaders barked out help too. LOL - biggest problem was them not knowing names yet and people doing OK started messing up. But pinpointing problems by someone watching was the biggest help in fine tuning style. Or in my case.... being reminded to quit doing corps style..... ("Jim WRONG GROUP buddy" ) Edited February 18, 2015 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 (edited) In reponse to Labmaster (no quote function for my IE Version). Basics were mastered during the first week of band camp. How do you master basics standing on the sidelines watching? I was lucky in that the bands and corps I were in had plenty of self starters who were definitely not slackers. But if there was a problem it was solved by working on the problem and not by doing "you screwed up... go stand over there". IOW - I can see elimination block as a way to relax, have fun and have a bit of personal competition. But as a teaching tool someone will have to explain how watching others like a bump on the log helps improve your skills. Yeah I don't believe "Learning By Osmosis" works. Oh yeah, threaten someone in a Sr corps that they will be out of the show. I wanna have popcorn for that fireworks show. Irony is seeing Rich Templins name in lower thread. Rich would scream and yell but the problem would be discussed which I see missing from what you posted. Edit: To KVGs post, my college MB during "basics week" had the band line up and go thru basic drill while sections leaders barked out help too. LOL - biggest problem was them not knowing names yet and people doing OK started messing up. But pinpointing problems by someone watching was the biggest help in fine tuning style. Or in my case.... being reminded to quit doing corps style..... ("Jim WRONG GROUP buddy" ) Im not advocating this BUT I will just say Sr. or all age is much different now and has been for a few decades already. I, myself have not only kept a few from performing for numerous reasons BUT also threw a few out who thought they were the queen bee or king because they had been around or besties with a director, staff or someone of authority. Having worked with templin and his crazy off spring..lol..I have seen them both lose their minds on members. In either case a good staff person should also reason with a person , although sometimes there is no reasoning. Usually if a person should not be in a show it is for a very good reason. I don't think staff could just get away with it without reason or should not. With that said I think the mind set of a young person would not be to hang out or be called out and welcoming rest time or breaks. They would for sure know because of being 1st out could mean more work in the long run. Just saying, not advocating either way. Edited February 18, 2015 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seen-it-all Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 So the people who screw up leave the block, and the people who don't screw up stay in the block. That makes total sense. Basics are awesome. An elimination block is stupid. But that's just me...and I've ran my fair share of basics blocks. Z It depends on how you do it and how often you do it. If you're spending time out of every single rehearsal doing the elimination thing, then I would agree. There are probably more efficient ways to utilize your time. But if you do it once or twice a season just to change up the pace and make a fun thing out of it, then it could become this fun game that people can psyche themselves up for in an effort to show off their skills. (Competition does tend to have that "take it up a notch" effect on performers.) And taking it a step further, if you utilize the "command and respond" nature of the block as part of your every day technique sessions without the actual elimination part, you can actually develop your performers even further than just what they learn from scripted exercises. I've run my share of basics blocks, too, and that's how we do it. It works, it's fun, and I highly recommend exploring it as another weapon in the marching basics arsenal in creating a well-rounded visual program. As with all things, what matters is how you as a staff person prepare and present it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 My fav Templin story is when we had to redo lot of a drill in second half of the season and things were getting "stressful" to say the least. One part our group didn't get and finally another guy and I walked over to Rich to tell him we were lost. Rich (being overstressed himself) yelled at us to get back and he'd be over. Sure enough he comes over and gets us to run that part of the drill. Rich: "##### looks like you don't know what you're DOING". Me: "That's what we were trying to tell you a minute ago" Rich: <insert more swear words> <insert directions to get us unscrewed> Yeah - Sr corps a different animal, even when the corps is 50% minors. And no hard feelings anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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