GUARDLING Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 My understanding is the original intent was so the govt could not force groups (in my area the Mennonites) to do things that go against their religious beliefs. For IN appears the law can be used by individuals to deny service to groups in the name of their religion. Would be interesting to know how similar those laws are as far as being able to be used by individuals. I think it would be quite interesting to see how far ones beliefs go IF someone was turned away at the door of a bar or restaurant at DCI and the packed place of drum corps people saw it and all walked out..hmmmmmmmm I cant wait to see the reaction to some rainbow flags in the Indy parade this year..lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Not one has ever witnessed a white dude (or dudette) allowed as a member of the Congressional Black Caucus; and that's not discrimination at the highest level? There's imposed (self, forced and/or perceived) discrimination across the globe in one sort or another. Is it wrong? It's traditionally only wrong to those it hurts...................and, of course, those of a narcissist nature as well. This is THE important thing, that I think it's easy for some to lose sight of: if there is language in a law that communities of people feel threatened by, insulted with, etc. then perhaps at best the law can be clarified/written better to quell those who feel hurt. A a straight, white, married guy I have little/no first-hand experience with significant discrimination: I look at Indiana's new law and know that the likely of me being turned away for business is slim-to-none. However, I see a LOT of people feel that their basic right to life/liberty/pursuit of happiness is being threatened by a law that seemingly opens the door for businesses to discriminate against them: from friends of mine, to openly gay celebrities, to legal scholars, to Fortune 500 CEO's, to the NCAA - a pretty broad sampling of US people. If Indiana legislature wants to pass a law similar to the federal law of the early 90's, they can write a better one without leaving the verbiage broad enough to seemingly open the door to bigotry or discrimination. Indiana didn't do that, and have at the very least opened the door to folks who are angry at potential implications of discrimination and exclusion: at worst they've flat-out opened the door for bigoted business managers to exclude people not deemed "acceptable" by their personal interpretation of their religion. I find it dubious for folks to try and tell others what they can or cannot feel threatened by, or to make very tenuous correlations with legit minority groups (such as above with Congressional Black Caucus) and seemingly discriminatory legislation such as in Indiana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Think DCI is doing all it can too considering the not so deep pockets they have. Interesting will be what the NCAA does with this for two reasons: 1) Final Four coming up (great timing) 2) NCAA took a bunch of hits with their reponse to some things (I live in Central PA so figure what I'm thinking about). DCI might actaully look at the NCAA response to get ideas as neither group can just walk away from their current contracts. Good points. When similar legislation was coming up for a vote in AZ NFL flat-out threatened to move the Super Bowl & the legislation was quickly dropped. If the NCAA threatened to move as many national/regional events out of Indiana (B1G Championship game & b-ball tournament, for example) and Indy quickly saw how much revenue they would lose, I suspect either the bill would be rewritten or dropped. DCI is not in a financial position to do that, though other groups have already stopped doing business with Indiana, or canceled large conventions, because of this new law. I suspect DCI couldn't really do anything: it wouldn't really be financially viable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 My guess, like all other once All Male Drum Corps before them, eventually the Cavaliers and the Madison Scouts will voluntarily end their decades long discriminatory exclusion of Females in their ranks... and within short order of that discrimination barrier coming down, we'll all wonder what took them so long to move into the 21st Century where continued gender discrimination policies were allowed to continue long after what should have been its Expiration Date. Bloomington, INDIANA is where the Madison Scouts utilize as a camp venue to bring in the males, and keep out the females. The irony of that is not lost on some of us when we are discussing a thread re. what some elected officials in INDIANA are proposing for public policy that has some apparently getting all worked up to the point of boycotting DCI because they perceive the policy proposal as discriminatory and " non inclusionary ". IDK, I think that's a goofy argument re: Scouts and Cavaliers. I've always looked at any drum corps as kind of like fraternities/sororities in their operations and in that regard I'm not sure there are any problems: just like Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cf144 Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 IDK, I think that's a goofy argument re: Scouts and Cavaliers. I've always looked at any drum corps as kind of like fraternities/sororities in their operations and in that regard I'm not sure there are any problems: just like Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts. Exactly. A private club (which is what drum corps are unless sponsored by a public entity like PAL was) can legally set any criteria it wants for membership. Private golf clubs do it all the time, and suits to try to force a club that restricts membership to men only for example always fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pes49 Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 I appreciate that you have an opinion on the issue, but I wonder if you've considered the potential unintended consequences for the activity if DCI followed your advice. I'd also like to know why you've not posted about this issue until now despite the fact that a similar Federal Law has been on the books for years. Get over yourself! And this is going to be an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pes49 Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 I do know I am now considering selling my finals tickets and canceling my hotel. Why should I visit and spend money in a state that will discriminate myself and my friends. I hope more will follow. The LGBT community has a huge fan base within DCI. Not to mention members and staff of the CORPS. You are so right, and it is high time that they ALL came out of the closet and stand up to this issue!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pes49 Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 I shouldn't be commenting, but I feel compelled. Please don't change your plans. This is a non-profit that didn't create this debate but certainly attracts affected citizens. Your support is much more important than your boycott. There are those in Indianapolis who don't support this either. After a lot of money is spend needlessly, the Supreme Court will probably declare this law unconstitutional, but in the mean time DCI should make their voice heard. What would DCI be without the LGBT community. A BIG FAT NOTHING!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rifuarian Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Almost 30 states have similar laws. Here is a letter signed by dozens of legal scholars - including several IU law professors I know personally - which, among other things, explains why the Indiana RFRA differs from the state and federal RFRAs of the 90s. Though I recommend reading the entire letter you can jump to page 5 for the relevant information. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Get over yourself! And this is going to be an issue. Pardon me? LOL 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts