Indiana's New Law

[cf144]

Adding a little icing to this cake, what if a girl identifes as a boy and wants to join the Cavaliers? How can denying them that opportunity be OK if denying them a drink should be a crime?

OK - that statement did it. My brain officially hurts now (Monty Python reference to those who didn't grow up with them).

Edited March 27, 2015 by cf144

[Lincoln]

Some of the analogies are just so...."interesting"

[N.E. Brigand]

Adding a little icing to this cake, what if a girl identifes as a boy and wants to join the Cavaliers? How can denying them that opportunity be OK if denying them a drink should be a crime?

Fun question. I'd be most curious to see the response should you ask it again 25 and 50 years from now.

[perc2100]

I would be very interested to hear from the people who say they are so concerned about the potential of a possibility of some discrimination that could result from this law affecting DCI members or fans, that they want to pressure DCI to make disruptive changes, as to why they are not making an issue of the continued 100% chance of actual gender discrimination by actual corps. I'm not saying I necessarily have a problem with the way things are with the Scouts and the Cavaliers, just that I don't understand the inconsistency.

Adding a little icing to this cake, what if a girl identifes as a boy and wants to join the Cavaliers? How can denying them that opportunity be OK if denying them a drink should be a crime?

I think in the case of Cavaliers and Madison Scouts, we're talking about not only a very isolated case, but also one where there are dozens of other options for females who want to march drum corps (as there are options for males who want to march color guard for Phantom Regiment: do they still have a female-only guard?). Cavaliers and Scouts' practices are so narrow in scope that I'm not sure it is a huge issue within the activity.

Indiana's new law, however, is VERY broad in its scope and has the potential to affect anyone. The verbiage of the law is so broad it is shameful that its on the books and passed (and telling that the Gov. signed it at a private ceremony instead of publicly)

[bill]

Not one has ever witnessed a white dude (or dudette) allowed as a member of the Congressional Black Caucus; and that's not discrimination at the highest level?

There's imposed (self, forced and/or perceived) discrimination across the globe in one sort or another. Is it wrong? It's traditionally only wrong to those it hurts...................and, of course, those of a narcissist nature as well.

Edited March 27, 2015 by bill

[31rabbit]

I think in the case of Cavaliers and Madison Scouts, we're talking about not only a very isolated case, but also one where there are dozens of other options for females who want to march drum corps (as there are options for males who want to march color guard for Phantom Regiment: do they still have a female-only guard?). Cavaliers and Scouts' practices are so narrow in scope that I'm not sure it is a huge issue within the activity.

actually, looking at the scouts/cavs is a good way to kind of elaborate on the language in the RFRA.

"(1) essential to further a compelling governmental interest; and (2) the least restrictive means of furthering the compelling governmental interest."

so, should DCI intervene to force the scouts to allow in a girl?

it COULD satisfy requirement 1, because it is a compelling interest that anybody who wants to and is qualified be able to participate in the activity.

it PROBABLY DOES NOT satisfy requirement 2, because it is not the least restrictive means of furthering that interest...since there are equal caliber organizations in very near geographic proximity, she has options that do not require intervetion.

so, *dons non-opinion lawyer hat to discuss hypothetical scenarios and POTENTIAL BUT NOT DEFINITE interpretations*

could a bar be forced to serve somebody they don't want to?

-commerce satisfies the first cause, because commerce is a compelling interest. but is it the least restrictive? there are Other Bars. so the government may not be compelled to intervene in that case.

could Lucas Oil keep somebody out of Finals via a discriminatory gate policy?

-the first requirement is met, compelling interest in commerce. since there is not 'equal but less restrictive' alternative, the 2nd option is also likely met.

hence the state/city could intervene even in light of the RFRA.

that is just AN interpretation of how these could be implemented, and in my opinion it is the most logic-neutral implementation. other arguments COULD be made saying you have a right to THAT BAR, or a very extreme position saying there is no compelling interest in forcing admission into an event.

[BRASSO]

My guess, like all other once All Male Drum Corps before them, eventually the Cavaliers and the Madison Scouts will voluntarily end their decades long discriminatory exclusion of Females in their ranks... and within short order of that discrimination barrier coming down, we'll all wonder what took them so long to move into the 21st Century where continued gender discrimination policies were allowed to continue long after what should have been its Expiration Date. Bloomington, INDIANA is where the Madison Scouts utilize as a camp venue to bring in the males, and keep out the females. The irony of that is not lost on some of us when we are discussing a thread re. what some elected officials in INDIANA are proposing for public policy that has some apparently getting all worked up to the point of boycotting DCI because they perceive the policy proposal as discriminatory and " non inclusionary ".

Edited March 27, 2015 by BRASSO

[GUARDLING]

There are lesbiterians in Drum corps and gayness? Gosh I just thought everyone was just extra nice to me when I marched. It's hard to wash your back by yourself. Dam, you guys ruin every thing. Everything!

lol

Edited March 27, 2015 by GUARDLING

[Lincoln]

There are analogies being made here that do not compare to the issue being discussed yet to counter argue some of the statements would end up derailing this thread to the point where it's going to be closed.

I sincerely think some do not understand what discrimination is because they have never experienced it.

I am thankful for the youth of today because more and more they just don't give two cents to the subject at hand.

[cf144]

My guess, like all other once All Male Drum Corps before them, eventually the Cavaliers and the Madison Scouts will end their decades long discriminatory exclusion of Females in their ranks... and within short order of that discrimination barrier coming down, we'll all wonder what took them so long to move into the 21st Century where continued gender discrimination policies were allowed to continue long after what should have been its Expiration Date.

I don't see Madison or Cavies as practicing gender discrimination any more or less than other private clubs/organizations like Boy Scouts of America or Girl Scouts of America. And unless I am mistaken, a private club can make whatever membership prerequisites they choose based on any criteria that they choose.