The "Perfect" Drum Corps show, according to Jim Valvano philos

[Fran Haring]

And... if this perfect corps wins a championship... its director can run around looking for someone to hug, like Coach Valvano did in 1983!!!

[troon8]

Within this excessively cynical and sarcastic mind, I really try to be a positive individual. Honest...I really, really do. In expectation and anticipation of the coming season, I tried to consider what it would take for me (a "casual" fan far more than an "insider") to regard a given show's standing in terms of being complete and effective...NOT from the standpoint of judge's points and opinions, but rather mine as a simple observer and listener. And it suddenly struck me: Jim Valvano. ESPY Award speech, 4 March, 1993. I suppose that for me, this might be the finest application I could find to assessing a given Corps's performance.

In this speech, Valvano cited 3 factors essential to a "full day" in one's life. Those points belng (and I, out of outright respect, admit the paraphrase):

1) Experience something which made you think

2) Experience something which made you laugh

3) Experience something which made you cry...or stirred your emotions strongly enough to do so

It suddenly hit me...isn't that, from a casual fan's perspective, what we're all hoping for when we lay down our dollars for a night's entertainment from some of the world's finest Drum and Bugle Corps? Yet, we find ourselves fighting among ourselves over which show was the "best", "most effective", or "greatest" in terms of quality. So for all the fellow casual fans such as me , I contribute this suggestion in assessing what truly moves you in your personal assessment of any individual corps' show. I will do so with each successive point rendered by a man far, far wiser than I:

1) Experience something which made you think. Did the corps' performance reach your rational brain? Did it make that rational brain ask itself "What was that all about?" "What were they trying to tell ME through their performance?" "How effective were they in engaging MY thought processess throughout the show? Did it maintain MY interest -- or did it render ME bored at any given point?"

2) Experience something which made you laugh. Laughter, in a drum corps show? I'm not talking of Punch & Judy theater, here. I'm speaking of the kind of laughter...the kind of emotional release...which one often exhibits upon a particularly pleasant, enjoyable, or enriching experience. Something that was so fulfilling that you find yourself able to do nothing but chuckle or laugh in amazement of the pure incredulity of what is before you. In short...one of those supremely "Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh" moments...complete with the emotional release of a smile and audible exhale of air when one is pleased to the fullest.

3) Experience something which made you cry...or stirred your emotions strongly enough to do so. Crying isn't always a result of sadness. It can come from joy...overwhelming joy. Probably it is most akin to point #2...with only the resulting mode of release rendering it different. But that show that makes you cry...whether it be from the emotion intended within it's message, or from laughter (pleasure) so strong that it takes it's next emotional step outlet. Did it sadden you so much that you hurt? Did it gladden you so much that it brought tears of joy? Was it so strong that it rendered your gut and your heart as being one in the same?

As Jim Valvano stated on that night, "If you can experience each of these things...thinking, laughing, and crying from emotional outlet...in a given day...then you've lived a full day. You've lived a GREAT day." I would suggest that if a given corps' show can elicit each of these three things in you during that corps' show, then you've been provided a full experience. You've experienced a GREAT show. Maybe it won't take home the grand trophy at the end of the year...but that won't matter. For that one night, you will have been given one of the greatest things you can be given in life...a meaningful experience.

The score won't matter. You might not walk away from that mid-summer show thinking "Hmmm...82.5. Pretty good." But what you WILL go home with is the reality of sitting in your car on your journey home, smiling to yourself, and thinking "Man....those Vanguard (or Blue Devils, or Crown, or Crossmen, or Troopers, or Cascades, or Pioneer, or Crusaders, et. al.) really REACHED me tonight ". And in the end, THAT is what will make your expended dollars most worthwhile.

(Edited for punctuation precision and/or adequate message intention.)

Good thoughts. I think too many times corps get caught in the trap of thinking that to meet any or all of these criteria they have to out-crazy each other and end up giving us a program that smells of trying too hard without succeeding. I'm not going to name names, but we can all think of some...Whether its some sort of uncomfortably surrealist narration that doesn't pull us in a clear direction, or a strangely ineffectual 8th grade history lesson, or an everything up-to-and-including the kitchen sink approach when in fact you're trying to put together a show about refrigerators, not sinks, the shows that stick with me don't do these things. They keep it simple. Simple doesn't mean easy, it doesn't mean simplistic...It can still include plenty of "Wow!" moments, it can still make me engage my brain.

The million dollar question of course, with an answer that's redetermined each year, is can a corps do this and still give the judges what they're looking for, which, as is mentioned elsewhere in the thread, is often far from what many in the audience are looking for.

[IllianaLancerContra]

And, whether intended or not, you have reinforced my questioning many times on this forum whether DCI should be selling a "competition" at all.

Fans get competition anywhere. There are few other places they get "filled".

DCI should be selling that because there are enough fans who appreciate that to support the activity for years to come.

Maybe you are correct re no competition. No need for prelims - just have one day in Indy where all corps perform in a random order.

[fsubone]

And... if this perfect corps wins a championship... its director can run around looking for someone to hug, like Coach Valvano did in 1983!!!

Still one of the best moments to occur in sports. Both that championship moment of him looking for Whittenburg who sank the shot, and his ESPYs speech in 1993. He was a passionate man, and that really showed through. The 30 for 30 done on him and the 1983 Wolf Pack team is one of their best.

[perc2100]

And, whether intended or not, you have reinforced my questioning many times on this forum whether DCI should be selling a "competition" at all.

Fans get competition anywhere. There are few other places they get "filled".

DCI should be selling that because there are enough fans who appreciate that to support the activity for years to come.

The difficulty of that is how to quantify that feeling to non-marchers. Before I marched drum corps, I was 100% into the shows and competition. After marching, and understanding all of the other stuff being FAR more important than just notes, drill & scores, I got a far deeper appreciation. That's something that's hard to explain to newbies. The closest I've been able to come is to basically play this scene from the brilliant ALMOST FAMOUS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qW9wqUI4Lg

even with little/no context, I've seen people "get" the tension that's washed away as the companionship and common bond/love of music washes over everyone on the bus: the "you ARE home" line kinda seals it.

I don't know how to sell that in short soundbites, and DCI has obviously take the easier route or marketing the competitive aspect, probably hoping that draws people in while the 'feelings' keep them for life

[Jeff Ream]

It's typical that someone would start bringing to the conversation something along the lines of judging and scoring.

Why should every GE judge read this?

No judge should be basing any of his/her scores, even partly, on their emotions. Especially GE judges. And for the most part, they don't. They pretty much stick to the criteria.

GE is not "emotional effect", it has to do with getting the point of the show across, how the visuals and music work together to create a coherent idea. Emotions have nothing to do with it. The emotional moments of the show are for you and I, the audience, to be moved by, not the judges.

If you want to get rid of scoring altogether, ok, fine, I wouldn't care. I love drum corps because of what the OP mentioned, the entertainment value, being moved, etc.

But as long as there is scoring, it should not be based on emotional output at all, that is way too subjective and varies from person to person.

And then you might say "Well then, how would you like for all shows to be judged by computers?" And I would say "I would love if that were to happen."

And then you would say "Well then, if a corps wanted to win, all they would have to do is figure out the judging system and exploit it to gain advantage."

And then I would say "That is exactly what the Blue Devils have been doing for years, with human judges."

If show designers were to realize what GE actually is, maybe we would see more higher scoring shows, more parity. Also, I don't care to see a show with hollow emotional moments strategically shoved in the show to boost score (it's actually pretty obvious when it happens), if the show itself in general is poorly designed. I'm not going to be moved, and it's not going to give you a better GE score. And while I'm at it, ending your show with your corps running away into a corner while the marimbas play some soft, fleeting melody is getting old.

reading your reply, you truly do not understand the sheet, it's philosophy, or any of the stuff Cesario has been talking about the last few years.

GE is all about being a fan....one that's paid. paid to sit back and react, credit the emotion, be made to think. GE isn't nuts and bolts technical proficiency. it's logic, seamless transitions, evoking reactions to the aesthetic, emotional and intellectual part of the brain.....

Ge isn't and never has been clapping or people on their feet. Sure Surf was a lot of fun in 2012 to watch....but looking at it on the GE sheet, there were flaws, especially with performance. Does it make it any less fun? No. But too often people judging GE get wrapped up in the nuts and bolts of it, as opposed to sitting back and reacting.....and enjoying

[HornTeacher]

The difficulty of that is how to quantify that feeling to non-marchers. Before I marched drum corps, I was 100% into the shows and competition. After marching, and understanding all of the other stuff being FAR more important than just notes, drill & scores, I got a far deeper appreciation. That's something that's hard to explain to newbies. The closest I've been able to come is to basically play this scene from the brilliant ALMOST FAMOUS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qW9wqUI4Lg

even with little/no context, I've seen people "get" the tension that's washed away as the companionship and common bond/love of music washes over everyone on the bus: the "you ARE home" line kinda seals it.

I don't know how to sell that in short soundbites, and DCI has obviously take the easier route or marketing the competitive aspect, probably hoping that draws people in while the 'feelings' keep them for life

I'm not attacking you with the following, perc. I LOVE your posts...even those that I don't necessarily agree with upon first reading. But that's ok...it's the beauty of the medium.

I suppose that, with my original posting, I may very well have been writing as much from a subconscious viewpoint ("what I purely feel from the gut") as from a more conscious point of view ("what my brain tells me"). And while my brain requires all sorts of proof in order to form a well-informed and logically-based opinion, my gut only knows one thing: what I like, what hits me hard, and what ends up leaving an indelible memory. It's not a matter of right vs. wrong....of good vs. bad...or of proficient vs. technically weak. It's nothing other than a simple, visceral, HUMAN reaction to what hits us...and what affects us.

If there is any error with all of this (this thread, I mean, which I opened against maybe what would be considered to be better judgement), it would be my use of the word "perfect" in the title. Again...I guess I suffered from gut vs. brain.

What I guess I'm saying is this: why is it incumbent upon the activity to justify (or quantify, in your words) what it is it does? I can accept this from a purely economic standpoint...maybe I'm reacting far too strongly as one who has seen music as being, above all else, an art. And maybe I'm simply admitting to a life-long struggle with attempting to equally reconcile the application of art to business. Yeah...my mind is as jumbled as it appears.

Edited May 16, 2015 by HornTeacher

[gloriousgoo]

And yet people gravitate towards Tilt which did none of these. Tilt was an action movie for drum corps, lots of visual oohh and ahhing, but when it comes down to it, there's nothing in there worthwhile.

[HornTeacher]

And yet people gravitate towards Tilt which did none of these. Tilt was an action movie for drum corps, lots of visual oohh and ahhing, but when it comes down to it, there's nothing in there worthwhile.

I'm sure that the people who were reached on a gut level from the show would argue this point with you most vociferously.

Edited May 16, 2015 by HornTeacher

[gloriousgoo]

Reached by what? It was a fun watch, sure, but there's no sustenance.