The "Perfect" Drum Corps show, according to Jim Valvano philos

[HornTeacher]

Within this excessively cynical and sarcastic mind, I really try to be a positive individual. Honest...I really, really do. In expectation and anticipation of the coming season, I tried to consider what it would take for me (a "casual" fan far more than an "insider") to regard a given show's standing in terms of being complete and effective...NOT from the standpoint of judge's points and opinions, but rather mine as a simple observer and listener. And it suddenly struck me: Jim Valvano. ESPY Award speech, 4 March, 1993. I suppose that for me, this might be the finest application I could find to assessing a given Corps's performance.

In this speech, Valvano cited 3 factors essential to a "full day" in one's life. Those points belng (and I, out of outright respect, admit the paraphrase):

1) Experience something which made you think

2) Experience something which made you laugh

3) Experience something which made you cry...or stirred your emotions strongly enough to do so

It suddenly hit me...isn't that, from a casual fan's perspective, what we're all hoping for when we lay down our dollars for a night's entertainment from some of the world's finest Drum and Bugle Corps? Yet, we often find ourselves fighting among ourselves over which show was the "best", "most effective", or "greatest" in terms of quality -- not to mention, the numbers which are eventually associated with the performance. So for all the fellow casual fans such as me , I contribute this suggestion in assessing what truly moves you in your personal assessment of any individual corps' show. I will do so with each successive point rendered by a man far, far wiser than I:

1) Experience something which made you think. Did the corps' performance reach your rational brain? Did it make that rational brain ask itself "What was that all about?" "What were they trying to tell ME through their performance?" "How effective were they in engaging MY thought processess throughout the show? Did it maintain MY interest -- or did it render ME bored at any given point?"

2) Experience something which made you laugh. Laughter, in a drum corps show? I'm not talking of Punch & Judy theater, here. I'm speaking of the kind of laughter...the kind of emotional release...which one often exhibits upon a particularly pleasant, enjoyable, or enriching experience. Something that was so fulfilling that you find yourself able to do nothing but chuckle or laugh in amazement of the pure incredulity of what is before you. In short...one of those supremely "Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh" moments...complete with the emotional release of a smile and audible exhale of air when one is pleased to the fullest.

3) Experience something which made you cry...or stirred your emotions strongly enough to do so. Crying isn't always a result of sadness. It can come from joy...overwhelming joy. Probably it is most akin to point #2...with only the resulting mode of release rendering it different. But that show that makes you cry...whether it be from the emotion intended within it's message, or from laughter (pleasure) so strong that it takes it's next emotional step outlet. Did it sadden you so much that you hurt? Did it gladden you so much that it brought tears of joy? Was it so strong that it rendered your gut and your heart as being one in the same?

As Jim Valvano stated on that night, "If you can experience each of these things...thinking, laughing, and crying from emotional outlet...in a given day...then you've lived a full day. You've lived a GREAT day." I would suggest that if a given corps' show can elicit each of these three things in you during that corps' show, then you've been provided a full experience. You've experienced a GREAT show. Maybe it won't take home the grand trophy at the end of the year...but that won't matter. For that one night, you will have been given one of the greatest things you can be given in life...a meaningful experience.

The score won't matter. You might not walk away from that mid-summer show thinking "Hmmm...82.5. Pretty good." But what you WILL go home with is the reality of sitting in your car on your journey home, smiling to yourself, and thinking "Man....those Vanguard (or Blue Devils, or Crown, or Crossmen, or Troopers, or Cascades, or Pioneer, or Crusaders, et. al.) really REACHED me tonight ". And in the end, THAT is what will make your expended dollars most worthwhile.

(Edited for punctuation precision and/or adequate message intention.)

Edited May 16, 2015 by HornTeacher

[Lincoln]

Wonderful post HornTeacher - thx!!

Edited May 14, 2015 by Lincoln

[Cappybara]

Within this excessively cynical and sarcastic mind, I really try to be a positive individual. Honest...I really, really do. In expectation and anticipation of the coming season, I tried to consider what it would take for me to consider a given show's standing in terms of being complete and effective...NOT from the standpoint of judge's points and opinions, but rather mine as a simple observer and listener. And it suddenly struck me: Jim Valvano. ESPY Award speech, 4 March, 1993. I suppose that for me, this might be the finest application I could find to assessing a given Corps's performance.

In this speech, Valvano cited 3 factors essential to a "full day" in one's life. Those points belng:

1) Experience something which made you think

2) Experience something which made you laugh

3) Experience something which made you cry...or stirred your emotions strongly enough to do so

It suddenly hit me...isn't that, from a fan's perspective, what we're all hoping for when we lay down our dollars for a night's entertainment from some of the world's finest Drum and Bugle Corps? Yet, we find ourselves fighting among ourselves over which show was the "best", "most effective", or greatest in terms of quality. So for the casual fan, I contribute this suggestion in assessing what truly moves you in your personal assessment of any individual corps' show. I will do so with each successive point rendered by a man far wiser than I:

1) Experience something which made you think. Did the corps' performance reach your rational brain? Did it make that rational brain ask itself "What was that all about?" "What were they trying to tell ME through their performance?" "How effective were they in engaging my thought processess throughout the show? Did it maintain my interest -- or did it render me bored at any given point?"

2) Experience something which made you laugh. Laughter, in a drum corps show? I'm not talking of Punch & Judy theater, here. I'm speaking of the kind of laughter...the kind of emotional release...which one often exhibits upon a particularly pleasant, enjoyable, or enriching experience. Something that was so fulfilling that you find yourself able to do nothing but chuckle or laugh in amazement of the pure incredulity of what is before you. In short...one of those supremely "Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh" moments...complete with the emotional release of a smile and audible exhale of air when one is pleased to the fullest.

3) Experience something which made you cry...or stirred your emotions strongly enough to do so. Crying isn't always a result of sadness. It can come from joy...overwhelming joy. Probably it is most akin to point #2...with only the resulting mode of release rendering it different. But that show that makes you cry...whether it be from the emotion intended within it's message, or from laughter (pleasure) so strong that it takes it's next emotional step outlet. Did it sadden you so much that you hurt? Did it gladden you so much that it brought tears of joy?

As Jim Valvano stated on that night, "If you can experience each of these things...thinking, laughing, and crying from emotional outlet...in a given day...then you've lived a full day. You've lived a GREAT day." I would suggest that if a given corps' show can elicit each of these three things in you during that corps' show, then you've been provided a full experience. You've experienced a GREAT show. Maybe it won't take home the grand trophy at the end of the year...but that won't matter. For that one night, you will have been given one of the greatest things you can be given in life...a meaningful experience.

The score won't matter. You won't ever walk away from that mid-summer show thinking "Hmmm...82.5. Pretty good." But what you WILL go home with is the reality of sitting in your car, smiling to yourself, and thinking "Man....those Vanguard (or Blue Devils, or Crown, or Crossmen, or Troopers, or Cascades...ad infinitum) really REACHED me tonight. And in the end, THAT is what will make your expended dollars most worthwhile.

Very nice. I agree with the criteria very much as well as your sentiment that ultimately the score does not matter. As I read the post, I tried to think of some shows that, for me, satisfied that criteria. From what I've thought of so far, Crown 2013 and Blue Knights 2014 seem to fulfill it for me.

[garfield]

Within this excessively cynical and sarcastic mind, I really try to be a positive individual. Honest...I really, really do. In expectation and anticipation of the coming season, I tried to consider what it would take for me to consider a given show's standing in terms of being complete and effective...NOT from the standpoint of judge's points and opinions, but rather mine as a simple observer and listener. And it suddenly struck me: Jim Valvano. ESPY Award speech, 4 March, 1993. I suppose that for me, this might be the finest application I could find to assessing a given Corps's performance.

In this speech, Valvano cited 3 factors essential to a "full day" in one's life. Those points belng:

1) Experience something which made you think

2) Experience something which made you laugh

3) Experience something which made you cry...or stirred your emotions strongly enough to do so

It suddenly hit me...isn't that, from a fan's perspective, what we're all hoping for when we lay down our dollars for a night's entertainment from some of the world's finest Drum and Bugle Corps? Yet, we find ourselves fighting among ourselves over which show was the "best", "most effective", or greatest in terms of quality. So for the casual fan, I contribute this suggestion in assessing what truly moves you in your personal assessment of any individual corps' show. I will do so with each successive point rendered by a man far wiser than I:

1) Experience something which made you think. Did the corps' performance reach your rational brain? Did it make that rational brain ask itself "What was that all about?" "What were they trying to tell ME through their performance?" "How effective were they in engaging my thought processess throughout the show? Did it maintain my interest -- or did it render me bored at any given point?"

2) Experience something which made you laugh. Laughter, in a drum corps show? I'm not talking of Punch & Judy theater, here. I'm speaking of the kind of laughter...the kind of emotional release...which one often exhibits upon a particularly pleasant, enjoyable, or enriching experience. Something that was so fulfilling that you find yourself able to do nothing but chuckle or laugh in amazement of the pure incredulity of what is before you. In short...one of those supremely "Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh" moments...complete with the emotional release of a smile and audible exhale of air when one is pleased to the fullest.

3) Experience something which made you cry...or stirred your emotions strongly enough to do so. Crying isn't always a result of sadness. It can come from joy...overwhelming joy. Probably it is most akin to point #2...with only the resulting mode of release rendering it different. But that show that makes you cry...whether it be from the emotion intended within it's message, or from laughter (pleasure) so strong that it takes it's next emotional step outlet. Did it sadden you so much that you hurt? Did it gladden you so much that it brought tears of joy?

As Jim Valvano stated on that night, "If you can experience each of these things...thinking, laughing, and crying from emotional outlet...in a given day...then you've lived a full day. You've lived a GREAT day." I would suggest that if a given corps' show can elicit each of these three things in you during that corps' show, then you've been provided a full experience. You've experienced a GREAT show. Maybe it won't take home the grand trophy at the end of the year...but that won't matter. For that one night, you will have been given one of the greatest things you can be given in life...a meaningful experience.

The score won't matter. You won't ever walk away from that mid-summer show thinking "Hmmm...82.5. Pretty good." But what you WILL go home with is the reality of sitting in your car, smiling to yourself, and thinking "Man....those Vanguard (or Blue Devils, or Crown, or Crossmen, or Troopers, or Cascades...ad infinitum) really REACHED me tonight. And in the end, THAT is what will make your expended dollars most worthwhile.

And, whether intended or not, you have reinforced my questioning many times on this forum whether DCI should be selling a "competition" at all.

Fans get competition anywhere. There are few other places they get "filled".

DCI should be selling that because there are enough fans who appreciate that to support the activity for years to come.

[N.E. Brigand]

A fine post. Yet I'm not sure all three elements should be expected of any one performance. Sure, a great comedic film might also deeply move you, or a great tragic play might also have moments of laughter, and either might make you think--just as a great essay might make you smile or cry as well as contemplate--but eleven minutes is a very short time to manage all of that. It's not impossible (Chuck Jones's cartoon "Feed the Kitty" is perhaps an example) but I'd be satisfied with even one of those things done very well, hoping that the whole evening's worth of shows will deliver those elements in the aggregate.

[HornTeacher]

A fine post. Yet I'm not sure all three elements should be expected of any one performance. Sure, a great comedic film might also deeply move you, or a great tragic play might also have moments of laughter, and either might make you think--just as a great essay might make you smile or cry as well as contemplate--but eleven minutes is a very short time to manage all of that. It's not impossible (Chuck Jones's cartoon "Feed the Kitty" is perhaps an example) but I'd be satisfied with even one of those things done very well, hoping that the whole evening's worth of shows will deliver those elements in the aggregate.

You are completely right. But I wasn't saying that a "fine" performance was dependent upon the aggregate of all three. I was trying to point out that, if you were fortunate enough to be reached on all three levels, then you've been treated to an overwhelmingly wonderful experience. A FULL experience. And any show that might just happen to come along which does, indeed, elicit all three? Then count yourself as among the most fortunate in this world. The semantics may differ...but I think we are of one in the same in the sentiment (if I may be allowed to be so presumptuous). And maybe the most wonderful thing about this may be: it is all dependent upon the perception of the individual fan. We can argue until Armageddon as to whether any show was a "winner" or not; however, what becomes "meaningful" or "effective" is purely in the mind of the individual viewer. The "Everyman" who purchases the 30, 40, or 50-dollar seat. As fans, WE don't carry home the trophy. But maybe more importantly, we do carry home the experience...and in many cases, an experience which we will remember for many, many years. And make us return for more.

Edited May 15, 2015 by HornTeacher

[Eleran]

And, whether intended or not, you have reinforced my questioning many times on this forum whether DCI should be selling a "competition" at all.

Fans get competition anywhere. There are few other places they get "filled".

DCI should be selling that because there are enough fans who appreciate that to support the activity for years to come.

DCI has a a 50 or so question survey out to marching members, which my son just took tonight. Don't know if it's new, though he didn't get one last season.

One of the questions was along the lines of what's most important to you in being a part of a DCI corps, and he was asked to rate several categories. "competing" didn't get anywhere near as high a score as "performing in front of a live audience".

I doubt they will do it, but I'd really like them to publish the results of those surveys.

[Jeff Ream]

Within this excessively cynical and sarcastic mind, I really try to be a positive individual. Honest...I really, really do. In expectation and anticipation of the coming season, I tried to consider what it would take for me (a "casual" fan far more than an "insider") to regard a given show's standing in terms of being complete and effective...NOT from the standpoint of judge's points and opinions, but rather mine as a simple observer and listener. And it suddenly struck me: Jim Valvano. ESPY Award speech, 4 March, 1993. I suppose that for me, this might be the finest application I could find to assessing a given Corps's performance.

In this speech, Valvano cited 3 factors essential to a "full day" in one's life. Those points belng (and I, out of outright respect, admit the paraphrase):

1) Experience something which made you think

2) Experience something which made you laugh

3) Experience something which made you cry...or stirred your emotions strongly enough to do so

It suddenly hit me...isn't that, from a casual fan's perspective, what we're all hoping for when we lay down our dollars for a night's entertainment from some of the world's finest Drum and Bugle Corps? Yet, we find ourselves fighting among ourselves over which show was the "best", "most effective", or "greatest" in terms of quality. So for all the fellow casual fans such as me , I contribute this suggestion in assessing what truly moves you in your personal assessment of any individual corps' show. I will do so with each successive point rendered by a man far, far wiser than I:

1) Experience something which made you think. Did the corps' performance reach your rational brain? Did it make that rational brain ask itself "What was that all about?" "What were they trying to tell ME through their performance?" "How effective were they in engaging MY thought processess throughout the show? Did it maintain MY interest -- or did it render ME bored at any given point?"

2) Experience something which made you laugh. Laughter, in a drum corps show? I'm not talking of Punch & Judy theater, here. I'm speaking of the kind of laughter...the kind of emotional release...which one often exhibits upon a particularly pleasant, enjoyable, or enriching experience. Something that was so fulfilling that you find yourself able to do nothing but chuckle or laugh in amazement of the pure incredulity of what is before you. In short...one of those supremely "Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh" moments...complete with the emotional release of a smile and audible exhale of air when one is pleased to the fullest.

3) Experience something which made you cry...or stirred your emotions strongly enough to do so. Crying isn't always a result of sadness. It can come from joy...overwhelming joy. Probably it is most akin to point #2...with only the resulting mode of release rendering it different. But that show that makes you cry...whether it be from the emotion intended within it's message, or from laughter (pleasure) so strong that it takes it's next emotional step outlet. Did it sadden you so much that you hurt? Did it gladden you so much that it brought tears of joy? Was it so strong that it rendered your gut and your heart as being one in the same?

As Jim Valvano stated on that night, "If you can experience each of these things...thinking, laughing, and crying from emotional outlet...in a given day...then you've lived a full day. You've lived a GREAT day." I would suggest that if a given corps' show can elicit each of these three things in you during that corps' show, then you've been provided a full experience. You've experienced a GREAT show. Maybe it won't take home the grand trophy at the end of the year...but that won't matter. For that one night, you will have been given one of the greatest things you can be given in life...a meaningful experience.

The score won't matter. You might not walk away from that mid-summer show thinking "Hmmm...82.5. Pretty good." But what you WILL go home with is the reality of sitting in your car on your journey home, smiling to yourself, and thinking "Man....those Vanguard (or Blue Devils, or Crown, or Crossmen, or Troopers, or Cascades, or Pioneer, or Crusaders, et. al.) really REACHED me tonight ". And in the end, THAT is what will make your expended dollars most worthwhile.

(Edited for punctuation precision and/or adequate message intention.)

every GE judge should read this. great stuff

[Liahona]

DCI has a a 50 or so question survey out to marching members, which my son just took tonight. Don't know if it's new, though he didn't get one last season.

One of the questions was along the lines of what's most important to you in being a part of a DCI corps, and he was asked to rate several categories. "competing" didn't get anywhere near as high a score as "performing in front of a live audience".

I doubt they will do it, but I'd really like them to publish the results of those surveys.

If it was just for the sake of the competition I probably wouldn't even bother going to shows each summer. There are so many other sport alternatives out there that use the "competitive" factor for my entertainment. I look for something to cherish for being there from the corps which is not quite the same afterward. Occasionally I'm transported in ways in their shows that I did not originally expect. That, is what keeps me coming back again and again.

[BoyWonder1911]

every GE judge should read this. great stuff

It's typical that someone would start bringing to the conversation something along the lines of judging and scoring.

Why should every GE judge read this?

No judge should be basing any of his/her scores, even partly, on their emotions. Especially GE judges. And for the most part, they don't. They pretty much stick to the criteria.

GE is not "emotional effect", it has to do with getting the point of the show across, how the visuals and music work together to create a coherent idea. Emotions have nothing to do with it. The emotional moments of the show are for you and I, the audience, to be moved by, not the judges.

If you want to get rid of scoring altogether, ok, fine, I wouldn't care. I love drum corps because of what the OP mentioned, the entertainment value, being moved, etc.

But as long as there is scoring, it should not be based on emotional output at all, that is way too subjective and varies from person to person.

And then you might say "Well then, how would you like for all shows to be judged by computers?" And I would say "I would love if that were to happen."

And then you would say "Well then, if a corps wanted to win, all they would have to do is figure out the judging system and exploit it to gain advantage."

And then I would say "That is exactly what the Blue Devils have been doing for years, with human judges."

If show designers were to realize what GE actually is, maybe we would see more higher scoring shows, more parity. Also, I don't care to see a show with hollow emotional moments strategically shoved in the show to boost score (it's actually pretty obvious when it happens), if the show itself in general is poorly designed. I'm not going to be moved, and it's not going to give you a better GE score. And while I'm at it, ending your show with your corps running away into a corner while the marimbas play some soft, fleeting melody is getting old.