3rd&10 Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 Maybe because the Troopers are hurting for members? Especially in brass? This is my wishful-thinking-but-still-in-the-realm-of-possibility prediction - knowing next to nothing about shows. 12. Troop (Everyone just loves to put Troop here, so why not?) 13. Crossmen 14. Colts 15. OC 16. Academy 17. Mandarins 18. SOA 19. PC 20. Cascades 21. Surf 22. Pioneer Insert BDB & VC in the 15 - 20 range for semis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 (edited) And is that trend caused by the show design? Or does the show design affect the recruitment which causes a placement trend? Combination of both? Basically, if one has the staff to write a top shelf Visual Design, it really doesn't matter what you play, imo... as great brass and percussion MM's will flock to your Corps, and as such you'll be pretty much guaranteed a top 4 placing. Neither Pioneer, nor Jersey Surf could play " Jingle Bells " in their show and finish in the Top 4... But The Cadets could ( and did... 2012. ) Pioneer and Jersey Surf couldn't play " I Got Rhytmn" ( from Girl Crazy, musical ).... and play it repetitively twice in a decade as BD did in 2002 ( for 2nd place ) & 2009 ( for 1st place ) and finish anywhere near this. BD also played 3 Dionne Warwick pop tunes from the 60's, 70's ( " A House is not a Home "..... " Walk On By "..... " One Less Bell To Answer ") into 2nd place finish as recently as 2011. Neither Surf nor Pioneer in this modern age of DCI could play songs like this and ever get a sniff of the Top 16 in placement by playing songs such as this. BUT.... they could play similar pop tunes like this and still remain entertaining for most fans, imo. Edited February 27, 2016 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleran Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 (edited) Basically, if one has the staff to write a top shelf Visual Design, it really doesn't matter what you play, imo... as great brass and percussion MM's will flock to your Corps, and as such you'll be pretty much guaranteed a top 4 placing. Neither Pioneer, nor Jersey Surf could play " Jingle Bells " in their show and finish in the Top 4... But The Cadets could ( and did... 2012. ) Pioneer and Jersey Surf couldn't play " I Got Rhytmn" ( from Girl Crazy, musical ).... and play it repetitively twice in a decade as BD did in 2002 ( for 2nd place ) & 2009 ( for 1st place ) and finish anywhere near this. BD also played 3 Dionne Warwick pop tunes from the 60's, 70's ( " A House is not a Home "..... " Walk On By "..... " One Less Bell To Answer ") into 2nd place finish as recently as 2011. Neither Surf nor Pioneer in this modern age of DCI could play songs like this and ever get a sniff of the Top 16 in placement by playing songs such as this. BUT.... they could play similar pop tunes like this and still remain entertaining for most fans, imo. But does choosing to be the "nostalgia" corps help or hurt the Surf's chance of attracting or retaining higher level players and getting to that level where they can play anything thing they want? Everyone says "Oh, they should do the Bridgemania stuff again ..." The fact is, the Bridgemen's best placement was the year they played "In the Stone" (1980), but for Bridgemen, that was NEW music (released in 1979 by EW&F). When Surf tried to recapture that moment, "In the Stone" was over 30 years old. Would THAT focus resonate with young players? Edited February 27, 2016 by Eleran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 But does choosing to be the "nostalgia" corps help or hurt the Surf's chance of attracting or retaining higher level players and getting to that level where they can play anything thing they want? Neither, imo I just said, it does not matter what you play... nor whether or not the show is nostalgia oriented, or classical oriented... or artsy fartsy. It all in the Staff. Phantom Regiment has done Classical Music Shows longer than Pioneer has gone Gaelic/ Irish themes. That niche has worked well for Phantom Regiment. Cavs could play " 3 Blind Mice " and get back to medaling if they had Michael Gaines back writing the show. And without Gaines, they could play the most artsy fartsy music and it won't put them in the medal round. Pioneer and JS should just do what they feel they need to do to be fun and entertaining. if they hit the lottery, and they hire away staff ( like Star of Indiana ) did, then they can think about going in another direction with their shows, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corps8294 Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 All this talk of "what if Pioneer had BD's staff." Sure, they might place a little better; but, they would be creatively limited...and we all know why. If anyone in there right mind thinks that BD's staff or any of the top tier, for that matter, would want to deal with so many restrictions in regards to show design is beyond me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 All this talk of "what if Pioneer had BD's staff." Sure, they might place a little better; but, they would be creatively limited...and we all know why. If anyone in there right mind thinks that BD's staff or any of the top tier, for that matter, would want to deal with so many restrictions in regards to show design is beyond me. ...and not just show design. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrumManTx Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 (edited) I and many others thought Pioneer stepped outside their box and improved quite a bit this past year, regardless of how they placed. This years show seems to be doing the same to me. All in my opinion of course. Edited February 28, 2016 by DrumManTx 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 All this talk of "what if Pioneer had BD's staff." Sure, they might place a little better; but, they would be creatively limited...and we all know why. If anyone in there right mind thinks that BD's staff or any of the top tier, for that matter, would want to deal with so many restrictions in regards to show design is beyond me. This has been a major factor with talented staff as well as many members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luv4corps Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 Meanwhile back to predictions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 (edited) All this talk of "what if Pioneer had BD's staff." Sure, they might place a little better; but, they would be creatively limited...and we all know why. If anyone in there right mind thinks that BD's staff or any of the top tier, for that matter, would want to deal with so many restrictions in regards to show design is beyond me. Well perhaps Pioneer is simply a bad example, as they do appear to have restrictions that 99% of the other non Top 10 Corps do not have. If we changed the Corps from (say ) BD to Pacific Crest, Pacific Crest would rise up just as quickly as Star of Indiana did in my opinion. The formula is simple. Get the best staffers money ( or persuasion ) can buy. Once in place, MM talent flows to that. Rennick left Phantom's Percussion to go to SCV.... even took the current drummers with him..... and overnight SCV went up in Percussion ( Phantom down ). If the ENTIRE BD staff bolted for Pacific Crest, Crest would rapidly go up in placement ( and BD would plummet ) as MM talent would flock to where the judges love what they produce for Show Designs. This isn't rocket science in my view. The problem the others Corps have however is that BD's key core staff have been together for decades and currently show no indication of testing the waters outside of Concord, Calif. any time soon. Edited February 28, 2016 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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