cadet93 Posted July 5, 2015 Author Share Posted July 5, 2015 (edited) Simultaneous demand cheesy and laughable? Okay then.Isn't marching and playing at the same time to a set equally simultaneously demanding as standing in one place posing or dancing? Edited July 5, 2015 by cadet93 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Isn't marching and playing at the same time to a set equally simultaneously demanding as standing in one place posing or dancing? Both can be. Marching and playing is demanding, but what to do at the halts? Standing and playing isn't that overly demanding, especially when the next corps in line is doing body movement to enhance the music and theme. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordsterr Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Corps do redos and rehashes for one simple reason.... they work. They work for both fans and judges alike. We often hear people say they like the watch and listen to " new innovation ". But what people say and actually do can be two different things. All research studies show that people prefer the familiar, over the unfamiliar, despite what they say. Judges respond to the same stimulai, and act accordingly as well. This is why it is more oftentimes than not the familiar that is rewarded by both fans and judges alike. Star of Indiana did not win in 1993. It was unfamiliar to both judges and fans alike. It is familiar now to us, as we have seen and heard it dozens of times now. So it is now familiar to us. But did that help the marchers of Star in 1993 ? No, it didn't. So lets be careful when we hear people claim they want more of the unfamilar, or " new innovation " from Corps. I just listed about a dozen examples on this previous page where what people ( including judges ) tell us, and what they actually DID, were two entirely different things altogether. Corps should not be criticised for doing some of the famiiar. Not when the famiilar is what most people, judges included, actually prefer and reward when we come right down to it. I think this is an excellent point and highlights why the Cadets have been so successful for so long. We often forget the people who try something first. It's not often that the first attempt at something is good right out of the gate, but someone has to try it. Cadets took a lot of heat in, frankly, changing drum corps in the 80's even when they were successful. There was a lot of that " it's not drum corps" talk back then, and they even had to endure being spit at by a couple of other groups who were displeased to not be winning. In 91, they took a lot of criticism for being the first to use minimalism and play "Short Ride in a Fast Machine." No one even bats an eye at that anymore. They took the first big stabs at trying to create multi-media productions. Lots of other people saw what worked and what didn't and have been successful. But it took someone trying first. Coats got a lot of props for the big tarps surrounding the field last year. Cadets were criticized in 89. Coats were beloved for "tilting" on the props and the dive off the prop at the end of the show. These things happened in 2006 at Cadets. This year, they are most definitely innovating, and frankly, it doesn't have to look like everyone else's. The French Horn thing alone wins it for me. I'm looking forward to seeing what else they do with this show. I'll bet it ends up a classic. And truthfully, I think there are 3 or 4 classics on tap this year. Good! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordsterr Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Did audiences even like that show back then? What were the crowds like? It was uncomfortable sometimes especially when people thought they might win. Honestly, I loved it from my first view, and it's still my all time favorite. Especially at the be DCI events, people actually booed. It was ugly. I remember this one guy inciting the crowd to boo them when they trooped out at retreat. The kids in the corps coped by choosing to accept boos for applause, and I heard charming stories about how they would boo each other at I and E. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordsterr Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 The question is, though: has the definition of "selling it," changed over time? What BD, Crown, Cavaliers and now Bluecoats do now is crossing over into a multimedia production. Cadets are really presenting something pretty close to what they did when they were dominating - a fairly rigid persona that focused mainly on technicality. Now during the 89-96 period, their guard was absolutely outstanding and really added a great deal of expression, but most other years, it was a technical display. At the time, that style was the norm, and they were the clear masters of it, but with others branching off to in some ways create a new form of entertainment, with more effect created by production values than precision, what would Cadets need to do make their approach the go-to choice again? I don't entirely disagree except that this activity still comes down to play, drum, spin, march. I'm generally confident that, despite how much anyone likes a show concept, the corps that does those things best will win. It seems that BD's show was not popular last year(I however, loved it!), but they simply do drum corps better. That's why they're winning right now. I personally predict Cadets to win it this year by the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordsterr Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Compare the reactions to Star in '93 and Garfield in '82. One produces audience silence - the other causes the audience to throw babies. Both styles of show were unfamiliar. I think some of the reaction to Star still came from the animosity they constantly faced due to their corporate sponsorship. However, early season in some of those early 80's shows also produced silence. They used to talk to us about how to deal with it when the audience doesn't clap. And you're 100% correct about the animosity to Star about the corporate sponsorship. It was often ugly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordsterr Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 If so, how do we explain Star's enthusiastic audience receptions to their earlier years shows ? While there was no doubt jealousy prevalent with rival Corps and their fans with the considerable financial resources that Star could bring to the table, it would be an inaccurate assessment to conclude that nationwide audiences ( unbiased ones ) did not respond enthusistically to Star's shows in earlier years. I wish FN was still available, as we could show verifiable evidence for this, by simply watching the audience responses at Finals in those several years. Its all there for verification. ( or was.. but now its gone ) Their earlier shows were a bit hit with audiences ( despite the jealousy clearly observable with rival competitors as Star moved up the pecking order) It's important to remember that the folks who travel to finals generally really like drum corps. The reaction to a well performed show on finals night gets a response that may or may not be similar to what happened during the regular season. Star got lots of criticism for being funded in 85. For having too many props in 87. For being too patriotic in 92 ( I was guilty of that...love it now...but not then). And then, of course, for being too artsy in 93. No kidding, I sat next to a guy who timed with a stopwatch how long they all had their horns up at the same time. Sheesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 (edited) My early season take on whats " In " and whats " out " regarding the " trend taking " in 2015 DCI. Big gigantic Props....... out Flat stages................... In Narration.....................out Singing.......................In Full judge panels....... out Halfazz panels.......... in Flu...........................out Food poisoning........out Running in shows......out Body posing.............in Brass soloists........ out Guard soloists........ in Drum Corps French horns..... out Band French horns..... In Dark colors................out Bright colors................ in Snare drum stick flips..... in snare drum one legs....... in large rolling balls.......... out trampolines.................. out tarps.............................in silk screens.................... in rifles...............................in poles.............................. out Trooper DM slow walk..... in not waiting for Trooper DM..in Hops tweets................... in FN...................................out starting time late..............in penalties for starting late.... out Percussion judges............ out Guard judges....................out GE Judges.......................in Show Electronics...................plugged in Show Lecturers.....................plugged out. Trombones......................in Cymbals...........................out woodwinds...................... out marcher climbing..............in placement climbing.......... out INT..................................in INT................................. out drones.............................out periscope.........................in rainouts...........................out tornado watch..................in Florida shows................. out Texas shows...................in Murpreesboro................out Waukee.........................In Steve Rondinaro............in Dennis Delucia.............in Michael Cesario............in DCI Office Personel.......out DCI Tech Support.........out anyway, those are my thoughts on the trends as to what is " in " and what is " out " as a trend line here in 2015. Any others, y'all are noticing ? Edited July 5, 2015 by BRASSO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Windish Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 DCP Sniping . . . . . . . . . .still in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brichtimp Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Both can be. Marching and playing is demanding, but what to do at the halts? Standing and playing isn't that overly demanding, especially when the next corps in line is doing body movement to enhance the music and theme. But, the question is whether the 'next corps in line' is doing body movement that actually enhances the music and theme. Some would contend that, unless executed judiciously, it does not, and comes across as...'we're doing this because we can.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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