critter Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 You are correct sir! The Cadets had effect in their show. The effect was derived from the marching and playing; not from tarps, banners or gimmicks. The argument that demand is subjective is an empty argument. I agree that there are different types of demand. But don't try to tell me that playing intricate music at 230 BPM while moving isn't extremely challenging. GE is extremely subjective, not demand. I think that this is somewhat directed at me. To be clear, in my statement about demand being subjective, I was conversing with George Dixon. If the definition of demand is "playing intricate music at 230 BPM while moving" that is your call, and I will also agree that is MIGHT be very challenging. If the step sizes are small and there are few, if any, direction changes, then the demand becomes much less. I also wonder what the definition of intricate music would be. Is it rapid technical passages? How about submit dynamic changes? Modulations? Changes of mode that create "intricate" tuning responsibilities? If the primary definition of effect is velocity, then any show you design would be hammered due to limited vocabulary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cube Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 I think that this is somewhat directed at me. To be clear, in my statement about demand being subjective, I was conversing with George Dixon. If the definition of demand is "playing intricate music at 230 BPM while moving" that is your call, and I will also agree that is MIGHT be very challenging. If the step sizes are small and there are few, if any, direction changes, then the demand becomes much less. I also wonder what the definition of intricate music would be. Is it rapid technical passages? How about submit dynamic changes? Modulations? Changes of mode that create "intricate" tuning responsibilities? If the primary definition of effect is velocity, then any show you design would be hammered due to limited vocabulary. Not to mention visual responsibilities. Are you in step? Intervals? Body movements? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c mor Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 It wasn't too long ago that there weren't separate medals at all for 2-3. You had the champions being presented with their medals on a ribbon. The medals for 2-12 were handed to the corps director in a plastic bag. There were no such things as silver and bronze. Anyone recall when they made the move to the Olympic style medal presentations? In 76-78 corps at finals received a trinket from DCI. They designed one for each year. I wouldn't really call it a medallion as it was very small, less than an inch and a half...more like a charm really. It said "Finalist" on it. I don't even recall that they came on any sort of ribbon or chain. That is all we received. No medals, no rings. 1st - 3rd placing corps received a trophy. 1st got a "Champions" flag to carry with the A squad. They also had caption awards - usually plaques of sorts. High drums was an actual drum. Mr. Seawright had belt buckles made up in 1976 because we won what was considered the Triple Crown back then; DCI, CYO, and World Open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobias Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 It can happen to anyone. Crown was a couple tenths away from falling to third on Finals night. Agreed. Backs my discussion on importance of panels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c mor Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 (edited) ... 3. Which brings up an interesting question - should DCI have "System Blue" as a sponsor? As DCI directs the judges - does it represent a "conflict of interest" to have one of those organizations being judged as a financial donor/sponsor? I believe US Bands (YEA!) is similarly listed as a sponsor. Probably not a good idea to accept funds from the organizations you are later judging ... I imagine, technically, System Blue is organized as a separate entity etc...however, Yes, it would meet the criteria for a conflict of interest. Yes, it would be best to remove all appearances of possible impropriety. That can't be done in reality unless you start with an independent board of directors at the top of DCI that makes it a priority. Then, one by one, address each area where conflict of interest may arise. For example: Ultimately, it would be desirable for all judges to have no discernable ties to any units they evaluate. Not saying it is easy. It probably is impossible. You have a group of units that organized themselves to promote themselves arranging their own events, deciding how to judge themselves, and paying themselves. That is one big conflict of interest. Edited August 11, 2015 by c mor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonwoody Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 1. I don't think the OP was debating whether BD should have won. I think they should have as well 2. The video is interesting - apparently BD & "System Blue" has immediate access to DCI's footage. Not sure I've seen that be the case with the other corps 3. Which brings up an interesting question - should DCI have "System Blue" as a sponsor? As DCI directs the judges - does it represent a "conflict of interest" to have one of those organizations being judged as a financial donor/sponsor? I believe US Bands (YEA!) is similarly listed as a sponsor. Probably not a good idea to accept funds from the organizations you are later judging I think what the OP is hinting at is: Is "demand" being fairly considered as a component of the score. Should it be? Or is effectiveness everything? Have to agree. But the only way this would change is for all the corps to say to DCI "Hey Enough". But DCI usually does what they want. Corps influence with judges has been going on since the 50's 60's. Only then, from what I have read. shows were decided before they were performed by a groups of judges. This continued each decade and still does. Imagine being in court a judge seeing how DCI operates. A Judge would slap them down and say stop it or I will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 If you dismiss System Blue as a sponsor, you're going to have to dismiss YEA and US Bands, as well as CrownTICKETS. be careful what you wish for, or you'll quickly end up with another G7 situation. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c mor Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 If you dismiss System Blue as a sponsor, you're going to have to dismiss YEA and US Bands, as well as CrownTICKETS. be careful what you wish for, or you'll quickly end up with another G7 situation. Agree. We are not in a perfect world - in drum corps or anything else. Although conflict of interest is built into the situation, it is the only way we have any activity at all right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tesmusic Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 While we're on the topic of finals, and what we find appaling, I felt that way in Section 139 4th row, that so many people around me who were clearly fans of corps other than BD would not even clap when their corps was announced, nor would they clap when BD was announced. I understand loyalty, ####, mine probably runs overboard more often than not, but I'm still going to applaud the corps I support and those that I may not care for as much. Those members don't have control over the scores given by particular judges, or design aspects, or the fact they their organization has won so many titles, so why be bad fans. That in my opinion was the most absurd thing Saturday night, and that's giving the fact that I believe Crown had the better show. It was just pathetic, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 It wasn't too long ago that there weren't separate medals at all for 2-3. You had the champions being presented with their medals on a ribbon. The medals for 2-12 were handed to the corps director in a plastic bag. There were no such things as silver and bronze. Anyone recall when they made the move to the Olympic style medal presentations? What the Hells a medal? OK being a smart aleck and showing my age as individual members got (physical) zilch BITD for winning..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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