Daave Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 (edited) The "cut off" for the $$ is also set at #12. Want to get paid more the following year for appearance fees? Finish in the top 12. When you plug it all in to the magic "points payout" spread sheet they have that includes how many years you've been in DCI, your placement the previous year, TOC payouts, how many shows you perform in total, etc then its all about the $$... so top 12 is where it's at, regardless the rest of the argument. Edited May 25, 2016 by Daave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2muchcoffeeman Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 that was brought up somewhere. and was dismissed. because everyone should be included or something. disappointment is bad i guess. I welcome challenges to my argument, but let's at least be accurate about it. I have never asserted this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Holland Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 horse hockey. Learning from disappointment is arguably more important than learning from success - there can only be one winner, so the others better be prepared to deal with disappointment. +1 to you. I need to grab a beer with you simply for this statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 The "cut off" for the $$ is also set at #12. Want to get paid more the following year for appearance fees? Finish in the top 12. When you plug it all in to the magic "points payout" spread sheet they have that includes how many years you've been in DCI, your placement the previous year, TOC payouts, how many shows you perform in total, etc then its all about the $$... so top 12 is where it's at, regardless the rest of the argument. Excellent point, imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 Right. And that is the basis for my proposition in the first place. What is the point to an arbitrary number of corps competing on Saturday night? What does it accomplish -- other than contributing to the "finals or die" culture that contributes to talent concentration and thus placement inertia? If we are to limit the number of corps competing on Saturday, let's at least have a good reason to do so, a reason that supports the overall vitality of the drum-corps activity. I have yet to hear one. ..... (shortened so someone can actually see reply :-) There's elimination only at finals because..um.. it's finals! It's the end of the season and the format is designed to reward the corps who achieve the highest level of excellence. Of course you don't have finals mid-season. So maybe we should stop giving out medals to the top 3. After all -- it just reinforces that exclusivity. Sorry -- you can't have it both ways. Either it's competitive and some units advance. Or it's feel-good we're all winners and let's all sing kumbaya. What's the point of having 3 shows in Indy if everyone competes every night? Might as well just have a single show and end it there. Highest score wins. Instead DCI (and most other forms of competition) use an elimination tournament to find the champion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Holland Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 I welcome challenges to my argument, but let's at least be accurate about it. I have never asserted this. you stated it encourages membership to leave one corps to trade up to another. while that may be true for a very small %, that's such a small % that's it really no different than any other corps member moving from corps to corps due to staff changes, financials, scheduling...etc. Do you honestly think that a large % of membership of the Colts or Troopers from last season left because of this? These corps are always on that edge and still have a fairly good return rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 (edited) The DCI top 12 reminds me of AAU basketball, just a recruiting tool for elite athletics for 4-5 stars college phenom. I guess BD & Cadets have many 4-5 stars musicians and 19-25 have many 3-2 stars on average. Except... a MAJOR difference..... AAU Basketball have transfer policies in place. DCI has NO transfer policies of ANY kind in place. As such, even if a MM owes money to his previous Corps there is no rule that prohibits that MM from marching with an elite Corps.... and at ANY time too. Nor is there any fee or competition penalties to an elite Corps from allowing that MM to march in their Corps either. DCI could request that they make the marcher pay his former Corps before he is allowed to compete with another Corps in DCI sgain. But there is no rule that disallows such activity. For historical context here, prior to DCI, there were transfer policies in place in Drum Corps circuits that disallowed these types of things. It worked just fine too. Corps folded back then too, but it wasn't because there was a transfer policy in place among the Corps. The notion that a sensible transfer policy can't be worked out that works for all the Corps, is not something that I subscribe too. Not when Drum Corps circuits have had such transfer policies in place before, and as near as we can tell, seemed to work pretty well, and with few complaints from Corps, MM's, parents at the time. Edited May 25, 2016 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Holland Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 Except... a MAJOR difference..... AAU Basketball have transfer policies in place. DCI has NO transfer policies of ANY kind in place. As such, even if a MM owes money to his previous Corps there is no rule that prohibits that MM from marching with an elite Corps.... and at ANY time too. Nor is there any fee or competition penalties to an elite Corps from allowing that MM to march in their Corps either. DCI could request that they make the marcher pay his former Corps before he is allowed to compete with another Corps in DCI sgain. But there is no rule that disallows such activity. For historical context here, prior to DCI, there were transfer policies in place in Drum Corps circuits that disallowed these types of things. It worked just fine too. Corps folded back then too, but it wasn't because there was a transfer policy in place among the Corps. Actually. there are rules in place for this. Membership signs contracts. And cannot march a new corps if they owe money to a previous one until the debt is paid. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 Except... a MAJOR difference..... AAU Basketball have transfer policies in place. DCI has NO transfer policies of ANY kind in place. As such, even if a MM owes money to his previous Corps there is no rule that prohibits that MM from marching with an elite Corps.... and at ANY time too. Nor is there any fee or competition penalties to an elite Corps from allowing that MM to march in their Corps either. DCI could request that they make the marcher pay his former Corps before he is allowed to compete with another Corps in DCI sgain. But there is no rule that disallows such activity. For historical context here, prior to DCI, there were transfer policies in place in Drum Corps circuits that disallowed these types of things. It worked just fine too. Corps folded back then too, but it wasn't because there was a transfer policy in place among the Corps. You are right in a sense that DCI does not usually get involved in this stuff . Often it's between directors and there have been many who honor this BUT there are also those ( in top 12 ) that have ignored it. Awful, Often those same so called stars ( MMs ) stiff the new corps also so there is justice in that. I myself have stopped a few from getting into the corp they wanted but there also are a few that slip by. IMO it's awful, they ( among other reasons ) are a big reason why there are corps we fondly remember who are not around now. People like this, and there are many , that have destroyed many winter programs , great winter programs. When some say we have become all business , well I can tell you 1st hand , many who did not treat it as a business fall prey to these individuals . Some are notorious for this. Pathetic.! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 (edited) Actually. there are rules in place for this. Membership signs contracts. And cannot march a new corps if they owe money to a previous one until the debt is paid. Yes BUT it's only as good as the honor of another director. I have gladly stepped in when I see this and have not taken people over the years till debt is paid or stopped them from moving on. Then there are those who beat every system. The only satisfaction is they stiff the next one even worse often and IMO that director deserved it. Edited May 25, 2016 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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