IllianaLancerContra Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 I've always wondered this, but why do just a few open class corps go to a competition like San Antonio? Wouldn't it be more beneficial for them to go to an open class competition(assuming their is one on the same night)? Or are they trying to see how their chances are for semis? BITD we in what is now Open Class loved to compete with the top Corps so we could see where we really stood. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 (edited) What data? Last year on July 16th Surf was 23.85 points behind the top score. This year on July 16th they are 22.1 points behind the top score. An improvement of 1.75. Last year the Cavies were 5.65 behind and this year they are 3.325. An improvement of 2.325. And I would argue (subjectively, of course) that points are harder to come by in the Cavie scoring range as opposed to the Surf scoring range. You make the mistake of comparing last years scores with this years scores. Corps scores are all pretty much collectively down this season at this juncture ( some down more than others ). Cavs, an improved Corps this season, for example scored over 80.25 last season on 7/15. ( last nite, 7/16) scored 79.975) The data that shows year over end improvement to date is an exhaustive, and thorough research effort found on another DCP thread here. DrumCorps Radio has a thread analysis on this very thing, and shows that as of today ( July 17th.. midday ), Jersey Surf( and now today Gold) have the most improvement to date over last season at this point in time ( which is what I said ). Now.. if you or anyone else here does not like his research and his methodology, then take it up with HIM, there. Or... if you have your OWN methodology to share with us that shows some other Corps with better improvement to date than Jersey Surf and Gold, then by all means feel free to show us your methodology and how it differs from his findings and results. Edited July 17, 2016 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 (edited) What data? Last year on July 16th Surf was 23.85 points behind the top score. This year on July 16th they are 22.1 points behind the top score. An improvement of 1.75. Last year the Cavies were 5.65 behind and this year they are 3.325. An improvement of 2.325. And I would argue (subjectively, of course) that points are harder to come by in the Cavie scoring range as opposed to the Surf scoring range. yep! Scores mean nothing year to year ,It's all about placements and spreads . Numbers are only numbers. It rarely tells if a corps got better or not. Often many corps do in fact get alot better but never move a placement or even drop and of course sometimes move up. I would also agree that as you move to the top there are alot less points to play with so it becomes a bit harder to obtain those valuable points. Maybe it's been said already in this thread so if I repeated with my opinion , sorry Edited July 17, 2016 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilme861 Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 I've always wondered this, but why do just a few open class corps go to a competition like San Antonio? Wouldn't it be more beneficial for them to go to an open class competition(assuming their is one on the same night)? Or are they trying to see how their chances are for semis? Open corps are still for the most part in their regional tour. Around the weekend of Atlanta, most of them will meet up for the first time around the Chicago area and tour that area before heading to Championships a couple weeks later. It's just the difference between Open and World class. Much more regional tour than a national tour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAvery Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 (edited) You make the mistake of comparing last years scores with this years scores. Corps scores are all pretty much collectively down this season at this juncture ( some down more than others ). Cavs, an improved Corps this season, for example scored over 80.25 last season on 7/15. ( last nite scored 79.975) The data that shows year over end improvement to date is an exhaustive, and thorough research effort foiund on another thread here.Not really comparing scores as much as comparing spreads from the top score. Which I would say is more accurate in measuring improvement by placement. Saying that corps that went from 40th place in 2015 to 30th place in 2016 improves more than a corps that goes from 9th place to 1st place is (IMHO) wrong. At least when you are measuring spreads from the top score, you comparing against the same thing. Now we could debate the validity of the top score last year compared to the top score this year, but I would hypothesize since scores are somewhat subjective the top score will always be approximately the same every year. And yes I know the scores are somewhat lower than last year at this time, but my guess is at finals it will be within a point of the top score from last year. Edited July 17, 2016 by DAvery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 (edited) Not really comparing scores as much as comparing spreads from the top score. Which I would say is more accurate in measuring improvement by placement. Perhaps. But comparing " spreads from the top score " is suspect, imo... especially when most of these Corps have not gone head to head with one another even once this season. Besides, the time to compare what Corps have " improved the most this season "( imo ) is not when we are not quite halfway thru the season ( this just demonstrates which Corps are the fastest out of the gate), but when the season is over. For example, If we did this exercise last season on July 16th, at the top of the ticket, the Cadets would have been deemed "the most improved Corps this season "(2015 ). Edited July 17, 2016 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 (edited) Yep all the World groups get grouped into 3 corps groupings and them randomly get a spot. So that top 3 corps will go on last but the order of those 3 is random. Perfect example is Boston and Academy. Both of them were very tight in Minneapolis Boston has not stepped foot in the fine city of Minneapolis this season. Although I do understand that DCI does consider half size judge panels and full size judge panels ( with disproprtionate caption judges among the early season competition ) scores and spreads to be an effective method ( along with the random draw ) to slot corps for the performance order at their regionals. It is a rather bizzare set up, imo. But its what DCI came up with, and all the Corps did agree beforehand to this, so no complaints with me on its rather weirdness performance order setup for San Anton. In the end however, nobody will remember the 2016 San Anton performance order. Just like few remember, nor care, that the Cadets topped the Blue Devils, Crown, Bluecoats, etc to win this San Antonio regionals last season. Edited July 17, 2016 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAvery Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 (edited) Perhaps. But comparing " spreads from the top score " is suspect, imo... especially when most of these Corps have not gone head to head with one another even once this season. Besides, the time to compare what Corps have " improved the most this season "( imo ) is not when we are not quite halfway thru the season ( this just demonstrates which Corps are the fastest out of the gate), but when the season is over. For example, If we did this exercise last season on July 16th, at the top of the ticket, the Cadets would have been deemed "the most improved Corps this season "(2015 ). Maybe. What was their point spread on this date in 2014 compared to 2015? And then how does that compare against the other corps? Edited July 17, 2016 by DAvery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 You make the mistake of comparing last year's scores with this year's scores. Corps' scores are all, pretty much, collectively down this season, at this juncture (some down more than others). Cavs, an improved corps this season, for example, scored over 80.25 last season on 7/15 (last night, 7/16, they scored 79.975). No he didn't: he wasn't comparing scores year-to-year, he was comparing spreads: how far was each corps from the leader (regardless of what the leader was scoring). However, it appears that both of you make the mistake of using an exact date in year-to-year comparisons, which introduces other flaws because: July 16, 2015 was the 30th day of the 2015 season, with 23 days remaining until Finals, but . . . July 16, 2016 was the 24th day of the 2016 season, with 28 days remaining until Finals. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 In the case of the three OC corps this year: local show. Genesis and Guardians are both from central Texas, Stars are a reasonable bus-ride away in Louisiana. Only other OC show happening that night is in New Hampshire. Easier travel, more exposure, give the kids a little taste of the big-time (in the case of Guardians, who [i think] aren't going to Michigan City/Indianapolis). Exactly, although this year, for this first time, Guardians actually are going to championships. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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